Previewing Ohio State football’s game against Purdue: Buckeye Talk podcast

COLUMBUS, Ohio - On this Friday episode of Buckeye Talk, Stephen Means, Stefan Krajisnik and Andrew Gillis break down Ohio State's game against Purdue and make their picks.

Instead of breaking down. the opponent, the trio instead discusses the future of OSU football by discussing a few under-the-radar players we could see on Saturday as the program could get a chance to play some of its depth.

We left the in-depth discussion about the Boilermakers to somebody else as an old friend makes an appearance to start off the show.

Thanks for listening to Buckeye Talk.

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Stephen Means (00:01.961)

This will start off the pod just for the listeners nostalgia stake.

Welcome back to Buckeye Talk. I am Stephen Means and I'm joined by a familiar voice. It's not the two voices you've been hearing for the past four months. It's the voice you heard for the last five years. I told you guys back when he left, I told you this was going to happen. I told you. Nathan Baird is back on the pod and he gets to do the very thing that for the first nine months he was on the pod, everybody told him to stop doing. He gets to talk about the Purdue Boilermakers

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (00:37.353)

Stephen Means (00:38.539)

Nathan, you have gone from one extreme of college football to the other one. And we're going to get into all of this because I also just want to get your perspective on what the last three weeks have been like for the Buckeyes. But going back into that, let's just start with square one. What the heck is going on at Purdue and why has it gone so downhill in year two of Ryan Walters?

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (01:04.206)

Yeah, I people recognize my voice. I'm actually kind of under the weather right now, but yeah, thanks for having me back. And you know, going, you know, you're taking a different, you're going to a different tier of the big 10 when, you're covering Purdue as opposed to Ohio state, obviously at the same time, watching this team in preseason camp, and we didn't get to watch a lot. I we got some practice periods here and there. We never really got to watch a full practice. We did not see a lot of, you know, 11 on 11 stuff and

at the same time, you just got a vibe that like the idea that they were picked 18th across the board seemed wrong. It just seemed like it wasn't the things weren't that bad. And then maybe and it's and again, that's a pick that's coming from people who aren't there every day at practice. The people who around the team the most, I think we're picking them more. Not that we are expecting a winning a breakthrough season, but you know, 13 to 15 range, something like that.

And certainly not just like across the board. And then that's exactly what they've turned out to be. Like they've lived down to those expectations and there've been a number of things that have contributed, you know, they thought that this transfer portal class that was by and large a well regarded one was going to like, enhance the depth, also install some guys in the starting lineup that were going to make a difference. some of those guys encountered preseason injuries were not available.

for the first several games of the year. One of the guys that receiver from Georgia named CJ Smith just played his first game last week. A guy named Nylon Green, who was a former top like 100 cornerback prospect from Georgia. He has been sort of in and out of lineup once he was able to finally start playing. So some big guys like that have not been available. The offense, which last year was kind of adequate, just fell off a cliff. Like if they had just been as mid.

offensively this year as they were last year, I think they'd have like three wins right now. But they have just just cratered. They could not like there was a stretch there where they can't they were like the worst power conference team in the country at getting first downs at getting in the red zone, scoring touchdowns in the red zone, just like every box. They were not checking every box. And then defensively.

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (03:23.155)

There were just holes there. They thought that this year was going to stabilize in reality. They didn't have the same kind of pass rush that they had last year. They've been very vulnerable to the run, especially on the edges. They've had a lot of trouble containing the edge. Teams have been able to run at will. That has not put them in the advantageous or disadvantageous passing situations that Purdue could then attack the way they did last year at times. And all of that has combined to just make them contending for being the worst power conference team.

in the country and then on top of that every solution that they try to come up with it's been a lot of like darned if you do darned if you don't so like there's three four games into this Ryan Walter sees what's happening with the offense he fires his offensive coordinator and Graham Harrell but he doesn't have he's a defensive coach he doesn't have a Kevin Wilson to turn to or let alone a Chip Kelly he doesn't really even have like a Keenan Bailey or someone like that he has nobody who's been a coordinator before

So now Ryan Walters, who's never been an offensive position coach, has never called an offense before. There was like a two week crash course and now he's calling the offense. Like these are things that you cannot even fathom on an Ohio State season. Like the idea that Ryan Day would have at some point just been like, all right, well I'm firing Jim Knowles, now I'm gonna call the defense. It's just ludicrous. And part of it was desperation on Ryan Walters' part of it though has actually.

Like the results have been slightly better offensively, like right after that is when they went over to Illinois and had the big comeback and took them to overtime before they lost. But it's just a team that has no margin for error. And it's a team that is constantly, constantly playing from behind. They cannot score a first quarter touchdown, have not scored a first quarter touchdown against an FBS opponent this year. They have not led at halftime in any game against an FBS opponent this year.

So those two things, like the two big accomplishments they've had are these two overtime losses in last three games, but they were down 24 to three in the third quarter against Illinois. They're down 17 to three late in the first half against Northwestern. And when you have no margin for error and you're constantly digging yourself out of a hole, you have no real chance. Like you're putting yourself behind such an eight ball every single week. they just have not found a way to get any kind of spark going.

Stephen Means (05:41.067)

You mentioned the FBS stuff. Haven't beaten an FBS opponent since Indiana to close out last year, obviously, beating Indiana State to open up this year in a shutout win. we see where Indiana is, right? They have taken off like a rocket ship under Signetti, which probably doesn't help the case, right? When you see what your rival is doing in these situations.

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (05:56.236)

No. Right.

Stephen Means (06:00.747)

don't know the basic way to ask it is is Ryan Walters on the hot seat some of our textures which they miss you man they miss you we got some good questions from those guys from the 614 how hot is the Ryan Walters sheet at Purdue and what's the general perception about the direction of the program can you fire a guy in year two even if things have flopped this much before he's really got a chance to get things rolling there at a place like Purdue or do you just have to kind of live with it get through it and then let's see if there's a brighter side on the other side of this tunnel

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (06:31.512)

So I don't know if people are familiar with how this Northwestern game ended last week, but they got the ball first and over time, they were facing third and, I'm sorry, fourth and five. And it was either gonna be a 38 yard field goal from the right hash for a right footed kicker, true freshman kicker who has struggled there, or you go for it on fourth and five. And I just told you how many problems they've had on offense this year. Ryan, it was just, it was a perfect epitome of this season because everything seems like a choice between two bad.

options and it's starting to feel that way with the Ryan Walters decision and everyone like the Purdue fans have been ready to fire him since early this year the most vocal people on social media right so I shouldn't say the whole fan base

The difference is, and especially once you get to the bye week or the middle of the season, you see other teams moving on from coaches. A lot of times those are guys in their fourth, fifth, sixth season. I was here for the, when they fired Darrell Hazel in mid season in 2016. And that was the situation where you were, it was the fourth year. You're starting to lose the locker room. You're starting to lose your coaching staff a little bit. Things were just getting a little bit toxic and.

Mike Buminski, the AD had just been hired a couple months before to fix football, which was code for hire the next football coach. And they just started that process earlier. Ryan Walters is the guy that Ryan Mike Buminski hired when Jeff Brom left. And he took a big swing. Like you're hiring a first time head coach, a defensive minded head coach at a place that believe it or not is known for its offense. I you've got the cradle of quarterbacks here from Drew Brees to everybody who came before him. And

At a time when and I don't think this is maybe the thing that they didn't appreciate enough at the time that a Program like Purdue is going to be vulnerable to what happened after last year Which is I mentioned before that they had this nice incoming class or what was considered a nice incoming class of transfers But they also lost two of their best players Nick Scarton went to Texas A Dionne Burks went to Oklahoma was their leading receiver last year Scarton was a rush end who was one of

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (08:43.52)

leaders in the Big Ten and tackles, or Saxon tackles for loss. And when you lose NFL talent, think Ohio State fans don't need to hear this. When you lose NFL talent, there's no guarantee that it's out there in the portal. It was this past year for Ohio State with your Caleb Downses and folks like that, Quijon Judkins. But the couple years before that, when they were desperate for any help on the offensive line or desperate for help in the secondary, those guys weren't available. And for Purdue, now you need it all over the place. You know, they tried to

to kind of recreate, kind of try to moneyball their pass rush, like pick up a few guys and create that pass rush in the aggregate, just really has not worked out. Again, I mentioned the injuries before, there's just a lot of things that they didn't have the margin fair that they thought they were gonna have. now you're faced with this, and there is a substantial buyout, it would be, you're buying out the last three years of a Kai who makes four plus million.

even at the contractual rate, think it'd be somewhere around nine million bucks plus some other guys that you would have to buy out because their contracts would still be live. That's a big hit when you're an athletic program that's trying to come up with the 15 to 20 million that you have to come up with to start paying athletes. At the same time, what do you lose in terms of support if you keep something that is going in this direction? The other thing we haven't mentioned yet,

is they start losing games and then they start losing recruits. And it wasn't a strong recruiting class to begin with, but like the top three or four guys out of this recruiting class have decommitted. They had a four star quarterback in the 2026 class who decommitted after they fired Graham Harrell. And I think they thought that was going to be a tough guy to keep as a kid from California. They weren't sure whether that guy they were going to be able to keep him as his status kept rising, but that didn't help.

I think they're still in the mix for him, but that doesn't look promising. like your future is also getting compromised. And now you have to go back to the same people you got money from last year and say, we need more money than you gave us last year to go get more players from the portal who led us to this one and 11 season, which is what it could end up being. And I think that's going to be a hard sell. I just don't know that there's any, there's no good answer because then also if you're firing this coach who hasn't lost his locker room, you're probably

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (11:09.322)

losing even more players to attrition than you would anyway. And now you're hiring a coach in December to then try to immediately get in the portal and go on some kind of shopping spree to get anybody to fill out this roster. That's kind of what Ryan Walters had to do a couple of years ago and why they were excited this past winter to be able to have the full portal and be able to go in and attack it the way they wanted, get the players they wanted, because then they'd have a whole off season for that group to kind of come together. And

that just hasn't worked out. So I don't know that there's a great answer either way. almost, there's definitely a vibe that they want to give him more time to make this work. the comparison to Indiana is interesting because Walters came in a year before Signetti. And I think that because of the shift that happened just in that year, I think Indiana from an NIL standpoint, and maybe also from just a hiring,

perspective standpoint was better prepared to go do what I think is going to become the model, which is if you're a mid tier program, hire a group of five guy with experience and he's going to bring his best 10 players with him. And now you're starting with a nucleus plus the guys that you have coming back that can sort of meld together a little bit more easily rather than hiring a first time coach and then just sort of.

throwing him into this most tumultuous time in college football history and hoping he figures it out on the fly. I don't think they were as a, maybe as a top to bottom organization. I don't think they were well prepared for just these seismic shifts that have happened just in the last year. And I think Indiana was maybe better situated to handle what has happened and set their, the next coach up for success. But he's also a guy who, as he told everybody,

has won everywhere he's been before. And Ryan Walters came in with like this sort of mental playbook that he'd been putting together for how to be a head coach. It's a long-term plan that he'd had. He'd been sort of piecing this together, but very different to then, even if you have what you think is a great plan to try to implement it on the fly the first time and have everything go right.

Stephen Means (13:25.067)

There is that element, because I mean, we covered it in Ohio State, that element of hiring a guy who's learning it on the fly. I don't know if college football, where we're at right now, gives you much grace for any misstep that you make in a situation like this, especially at a middling program where, again, when you're comparing it to what your direct rival is doing right now, it can increase the impatience of a fan base and maybe even board of trustees and everybody who matters there.

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (13:49.1)

Well, and also like Ryan Day comparisons an interesting one. the way, I accidentally say Ryan Day a lot when I'm talking about Ryan Walters and have to correct myself. It's like inevitable.

Stephen Means (13:55.913)

happened with. You flipped! You flipped! You've gone from when I was at the Perduda to when I was at Ohio State.

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (14:03.342)

I do bring up Ohio State and I always bring up like they hated when I talked about Purdue before, but here's an example from Ohio State that I think illuminates this. Ryan Day got to be a first time head coach, but with the entire apparatus of Urban Meyer at his disposal. But in addition to that, I thought Ryan Day made some really smart hiring decisions. And I don't know if he had the influence of Urban or Gene Smith when he did this, but when he...

So he's hiring his buddy. Like Ryan Walters hired a bunch of young guys that he knew to come in and set up his staff. Ryan Day hires his buddy, Jeff Hathley, but he also hires Greg Madison. And those guys get to coexist as your defensive coordinator. He hires, you know, there's young guys like Brian Hartline coming in, but you're also keeping Kevin Wilson because of just his gravitas and knowledge in the sport and a guy that you can lean on as an offensive minded head coach.

who even if he's not calling plays for you, you have an extra offensive coordinator mind. When he fired Graham Harrell this year, he had nobody in this, they briefly, the interim offensive coordinator is a guy named Jason Simmons, who was a fairly successful high school coach in Indiana up until two years ago. Then he went and did one year as Miami of Ohio's running backs coach, and now he was an analyst at Purdue, and that's who you're promoting the interim offensive coordinator. Like they had nowhere to turn. And because Ryan Walters had done,

mistakenly or not what Ryan Day had done and taken play calling back for himself on defense in the middle of last season and kept it going into this year. He was not in the off like we were still asking him questions right now about like comparing the offense now to early this year. And the best answer he can come up with is, well, I don't know. I wasn't with the offense early this year. And I think it's just a terrible answer for a head coach to give. That's what a defensive coordinator gets to say, because they're not supposed to be involved. But your head coach has to be.

And there are things that they're doing now on offense that have bought them a little bit of traction, where if he had been more involved early, maybe that solution would have come up in week three instead of week seven, week eight. So I think he's learned some hard lessons. They're going to have to restructure the coaching staff if they do bring him back. And there's going to be upheaval either way. And there has to be a bigger commitment. know, he was asked last week, kind of point blank, do you have what you need to succeed at Purdue? And he said, yes.

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (16:30.21)

But if they do not have the NIL resources to counter offer on their best players, and those guys are going to come in and get vultured off every year, no coach is going to build traction.

Stephen Means (16:43.051)

It's always great when you can get context, right? Because I'm a firm believer that numbers don't lie, but they also don't always tell the whole truth. And I think the way you talked about the offense is a way I thought maybe you would talk about the defense is based off of the numbers, right? The offense doesn't I mean, obviously they're not putting up enough points for 15th in the big 10 and points per game, but everywhere else, yards per play, they're seventh, they're passing it yards per attempt, they're eighth, they're running the ball decently for a big 10 team at fourth, while the defense is, yeah.

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (17:08.408)

Some of those gains have been very, very recent. Like some of that was really flatlined before that Illinois game gave them a boost. They've started to build a little bit of momentum here. If you take out the Indiana State game too, those numbers drop.

Stephen Means (17:13.597)

Okay. Okay.

Stephen Means (17:19.358)

And that's

Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. I think the improvement has led to maybe some drastic, but also some of the other big tens that maybe kind of dropped off. I've always gotten the big 10 plays while that helps defensively though. I mean, they're dead last and everything, but rushing yards per attempt, which are 17th, right? 9.3 passing yards per temp. That is like the worst. went back to 2016 according to CFP stats. That's literally the only time in the past eight years or so that anyone's been above nine. There've been like six or seven teams above eight in that time spirit period. And he's a defensive guy.

And so when your group is that bad, that's saying something, but there are at least, I mean, you know what's going on with Ohio State's offensive line. We sat here and talked about it for four years and then it happened. You didn't recruit, you didn't develop, and now you got Diamond Jackson playing left guard. Jenkins and Helt, I know you talked about they lost to Minnifil talent, but those two guys combined 95 tackles, 16 tackles for loss, 10 and a half sacks, 41 pressures. I mean, that's like on par with what JT and Jack are doing this year. In fact, it's a little better in some areas.

Just because of where Ohio and I know the talent level is different. We know that two of them are five star future NFL players. I'm not sure about that with Jenkins. But given where Ohio State's offensive line is right now playing a left guard and left tackle, you've got Hensman who was out of sight out of mind. Now he's playing left guard. Obviously the other three are the same. Can they test this line and just kind of start maybe poke? We're looking for holes after coming off the high of the Penn State game.

Can they test Ohio State's offensive line in a way that we can actually analyze? Or is everything just so scrambled that you almost just have to go, Ohio State beat Purdue, let's just move on to Northwestern.

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (19:01.986)

I'm sure it's something that Ohio State is aware of a little bit this week. KJ Jenkins is legitimately a good football player. The issue with him is he was on the end last year opposite Scouting and had a good pass rush year. He's a good pass rusher. They moved him back to Mike Limacker because he's only like 6′1 and they thought that was his best NFL fit. He's going to be a linebacker at the NFL level. But they've been so iffy on the edge this year that they've had to move him up to edge rusher, which has left him

Insanely vulnerable linebacker like they just don't have big ten linebackers and that's where Ohio State's gonna probably have a field day with with mines like Chip Kelly and Ryan Day in the mix I think they're just gonna absolutely shred them in the middle of this defense and So yes, there's gonna be you know, they gotta get him will help who's a sophomore a good pass rusher on the other side You know, they had a guy named CJ Madden that came up from Georgia as a transfer He got hurt has not played most of this season

They have a guy named Sheeta Silla who came from Boston College who had been starting on the edge But again, they've had so many issues there. So right now the guy at The other starter at rush in for Saturday's game is a guy named Jairo Jada who I'm working on a story on him for this week He played 21 snaps as a high school senior not because he was hurt But because he was that far down on his high school's depth chart. It was a good school It was a 6a state champion in in Indiana Carmel High School

But still, 21 snaps and then spent his first three years at a D3 and like set the D3 schools like sack record last year or whatever, but that's the guy who's coming up and he's actually played all right compared to the rest of that group. And now he's the other starter at Russian that tells you a little bit about the talent disparity we're talking about here. That is just a world away from even what Ohio State's gonna be putting on the field at offensive tackle for a game like this.

So the reason I pointed out the offense though, is because there was a point this year where the defense was very volatile. The defense would have its moments for like a quarter or a half, and then eventually there'd be a breakdown, partially because the offense just could not stay on the field and the defense was getting worn down. You saw that against Nebraska, saw that against Oregon State, like very winnable games that the defense eventually just lost it at the end of the game, because the offense didn't do nearly enough. So the defensive performance would be volatile, but the offensive performance, I can't like rub my tummy and pat my head at the same time.

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (21:26.392)

But the offensive performance was just in the morgue. Like the offensive performance was flatlined. And they needed to add some volatility to the offense just so you could catch the guy, catch a team on the right night. They almost did it against Illinois. that's, I guess they almost did it against Northwestern in some ways last week. But the offense has to give this defense a chance. Right now this defense has no margin for error because this offense just has not been able to consistently, it's always shooting itself in the foot.

People can go back at last week's Northwestern game. They were on a bye or an idle week before they played Northwestern. They had two weeks to get prepared. They finally get CJ Smith, that guy from Georgia back on the field. They dial up a sideline deep shot for him on the first play of the game. does the RPO. He pumps off the safety and gets him to bite. He fires it down the sideline. Perfect pass, hits CJ Smith in hands, he drops it. And then they punt. They can't make any one mistake.

pulls the rug out from under them on offense at all times. And that's against teams that aren't nearly as talented as Ohio State. So I was just doing my other podcast, our podcast now that I do for us, and basically said, I think Purdue's goal for Saturday has to just be come out of that game with more respect than people have for you right now. And that doesn't mean you win that game, because I don't think they can win that game. I predicted 52 to 10 or something like that.

But I think if you, like, if people around the country look up and they're like, Purdue's like, it's 24 to 14 at halftime. Like, know Ohio State fans would not be happy with that at all, right? But that game would probably end up being 48 to 17 or something like that, right? But like, do something. Get a touchdown early in this game. Like, show that you can drive one drive against a team like this. You know, they shortened the game against Oregon, played kind of ball control and kept that to 35 to nothing as if that was sort of an achievement of some kind. But...

Stephen Means (22:59.019)

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (23:20.13)

That can't be where this program lives. They've got to progress beyond that to where they have a little bit of life.

Stephen Means (23:27.775)

Okay, let's talk Ohio State for seven minutes. I told Nathan 20 to 25 minutes max, but then like, listen man, he knows what happens here. Right, right, right, I'm not gonna keep. Yeah, yeah, you asked the hard limit has to be a hard limit now in the way it did always have to be. I wanna talk specifically with you about...

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (23:37.718)

I do have to get up to basketball practice and the worst part about my job now is I have an hour and 50 minutes instead of.

There is a harder out.

Stephen Means (23:55.025)

Oregon game the end of that game up until the moment the Penn State game kicked off because I think that's the window where Like the negativity that's around the Purdue program that was like kind of around the Ohio State program even again two totally different Standards, but it felt like the same level of negativity at times. I mean we you're here spring you were here as These transfers were happening you were there last year on signing day when Ryan Dave pretended to faint when he found out Jeremiah Smith

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (24:08.76)

Yeah.

Stephen Means (24:25.023)

was still coming to Ohio State, which now we see why he almost fainted. But the way we talked about this team for the last eight months you were here and then the way the Oregon game played out where they lost by one point. it's, it's, it's right. And we're all maybe expecting at this point, as long as Indiana doesn't come into Columbus and doing anything crazy, there's going to be a rematch in Indianapolis. But those two weeks preparing for the Nebraska game and what they did against Nebraska.

If you were still here now, especially since you're seeing it from the outside looking in, what was your perspective? What did you think about what was happening in the Ohio state spear during those three weeks when it felt like you lost the organ, your defense wasn't quite what you thought it was going to be. And then this is what you showed against Nebraska. And this is, this is a way a texture put it from the three three being on the outside looking in, does he think this roster and coaching staff are underperforming?

Would that have been the language you used if you were still in?

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (25:23.724)

Well, I think that is a game by game answer. I don't think they necessarily underperformed against Oregon. I think they, know, two teams, there two really good teams. You're playing on the road. And if Howard slides down one second earlier, maybe they kick the field goal and win that game. that is just one of those things that happens. I probably would have made the most upset Ohio State fans frustrated that week, by the way.

analyze that game. Yes, there were opportunities that got away, but the arc of your season doesn't change that much. You can still do everything you want to do to win a Big 10 championship and you'll be the one lost national champion said when I feeded. Okay, but that's still there for you. the Nebraska game was where it felt like what's going on with this team. You have a week off to prepare for that and that's what you come up with. The coaching decisions that were made as to how to organize the offensive line that week. I thought were nonsensical almost and

other decisions that were happening in there. I, it felt like the better comparison, you know, while, while Purdue basketball, Purdue football and Ohio state football are polar opposites of a spectrum. There's much more in common with Ohio state football and where Purdue basketball was at this time last year, which was a program that is, I think it undoubtedly from results standpoint, put itself as being.

one of the, what, like 10 or 12 best in the country, except for the caveat of like the one that's never been to a Final Four in the last 44 years. And this whole fan base, I felt, would kind of like seize up and get tense over anything. And especially when it came to the postseason, there was always the expectation of we aren't gonna get the break, there's gonna be an injury, there's gonna be a call, we're gonna have, we're never gonna get the break on the seating. Like there's gonna be something that happens.

that always trips them up. And I feel like Ohio State fans right now, I think you play a one loss game on the road at Oregon and somehow that means you're less than you were at the start of the year. And I don't think that's true. It might just be that Oregon is better than you expected them to be at the start of the year too. And I know that there are people who are making, people are making an analysis of things that happened in that game, but it's also not fair to expect your team to play perfect on a nightly basis.

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (27:43.916)

So I think the Nebraska game was the one though that was more frustrating and more concerning. And Penn State answered that a little bit. But what I've been telling Ohio State fans this week is, hey, by the way, not only is this team a lot better than you, I think it might be looking for somebody to take out some frustrations on. Like it's been three tight games in three, the past four weeks for Ohio State. Now they're getting to play at home and they might just be able to take the top off this thing.

and run away with it. Like if it were something that like, this could very easily resemble that Michigan State game from 2021 where it's 42 to nothing in halftime. And partially because of the talent disparity here, but partially because, and this, by the way, this Ohio State team does not have Kenneth Walker in its backfield. But then on top of that, you might just be looking at a Ohio State team that kind of needs to go out and take some things out on somebody.

Stephen Means (28:20.436)

Yeah.

Stephen Means (28:41.363)

Last two things and I'll let you go.

Opinions of Will Howard? Not you're seeing it. Just like, is he better or worse?

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (28:50.078)

I think it's been about what I expected. I've been, I think, impressed with how he's handled himself. How he's played has not always made me think that we made a mis-evaluation of him. There were definitely some things we saw in the spring that led us, and I was, so that's the big difference here, is I saw him in the spring when people were kind of like, what's, when is this gonna lock in? And then from everything I heard,

Stephen Means (29:15.573)

Mm-hmm.

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (29:17.414)

things looked a lot better in the preseason, right? In preseason camp. so I think that they've got the right demeanor in place at quarterback. don't really, other than maybe like maybe he panicked a little bit on that play at Oregon, but that's the great, this is why me and many other people, I think you wanted an expanded playoff. Sorry, Andrew, but like now you get to learn.

Stephen Means (29:19.153)

Yeah.

Stephen Means (29:33.087)

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (29:45.026)

from a one point loss on the road against the other great team in the country and not have it capsize your whole season. Like it gets to be a teachable moment and you can come back and you get to play them in the big championship game maybe and you get to play them in maybe the playoffs too. There was gonna be an acclimation period to some extent. Not only to the level of...

Mostly probably to the expectations and to just the pressures that go along with being the Ohio State quarterback that are so vastly different than being the Kansas State quarterback. And Ryan Day's been upfront about that since I got, since I started covering that team in 2019. He was talking about Justin Fields. Like, you know, you're the, you're the shortstop for the Yankees. Like you are the, the focal point of this program and one of the focal points in all of college football. How do you handle that? And he seems to be doing pretty well with that.

I do think though, if there were a house eight fans that are, he is not CJ Stroud and he is not Justin Fields. I don't believe he is in overwhelming force out there. I don't know that he puts his team on its back and carries him. don't know if he, know, at some point the rubber is going to meet the road, right? And he's going to have to have a moment like CJ Stroud did leading that drive at the end of the Georgia game in the peach bowl in 22. Like so.

Stephen Means (30:53.376)

early.

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (31:10.138)

Who steps up? Does he step up and meet that moment? That time will only tell on that. time only told about CJ Stroud too. We hadn't really seen him have to do that. And the other times where it maybe had been on the table for him, it hadn't gotten there. So it wasn't until that moment where he was allowed to play in a certain way that kind of opened everything up and let him take them to the precipice of winning that game. And will Will Howard be able to do that and then put them over the top?

I don't know, but I think it's gonna be, I think you should have reasonable certainty that he's not gonna cost you games. And I think that was what we were worrying about in the spring. We looked at that and we're like, is he gonna be the reason why they lose games? Because he's just not as good as we thought, or he's not ready for this, or there's just enough holes in his game. And I don't think I'm seeing that when I watch him play now.

Stephen Means (31:59.883)

And that's the key difference from last year, because it did feel like at times that could your quarterback get in the way of it? He wasn't the only problem, but he didn't take away from those problems. I like to see just strong comparison as well, because there are some parallels. They're not the same talent level, obviously. But the first time we were trying to figure out, could CJ lead this was the Oregon game in 2021. And he couldn't right now. Hindsight, messed up shoulder. Second game as a starter. All those elements. Fine.

Ironically enough will Howard's in the same position against Oregon again now He might get a chance to get his remounts against Oregon CJ Charlton never got that opportunity But maybe you to your point this is why we were we wanted 12 teams Eight women perfect But the point of the matter is we wanted to expand the playoffs so guys could actually learn and not feel like all was lost Because they lost the game in the middle of October. This was fun This was fun for you guys who have been wasn't a little bit of nostalgia Brought Nathan back even though we told you back on his last pot. This was probably going to happen

I hope you guys enjoyed that. Do you miss the Ohio State beat at all?

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (33:02.178)

You know, this is such a beat. I did a thing for 11 Warriors early this week where they asked me some questions and one that they asked was like my favorite moment from the Ohio State beat. And I only just got here again. But like when you're on the Ohio State beat and you have things like the Fiesta Bowl in 2019 or the Cotton Bowl even last year, you've got that whole beat like congregating and

Stephen Means (33:05.803)

Mmm.

Stephen Means (33:10.195)

You've been busy.

Nathn Baird, IndyStar (33:29.126)

sequestering together at a hotel or a resort or whatever for a week and just spending that time together. That's a lot of fun. it's here. There's just the same like three guys you see every day and there it's you know 40 and so that was kind of fun that it's just it's even though it's a big beat and a competitive beat you get to have everybody kind of has their niche and you you sort of just kind of bounce around and can still make a lot of friendships.

And so I do miss that. And I miss that I only was, again, 15 minutes away from the facility instead of having to make this drive pretty consistently. But it's been nice being in Indianapolis and Ohio State's here plenty for any number of things. So I get to see all my Ohio State friends when they come through town and maybe it'll be here for the Big Ten Championship game in a few weeks.

Stephen Means (34:18.379)

Possibly, possibly. Okay, we're gonna take a break here and then Nathan's gonna leave and go back to Purdue world. We'll check in with him on Saturday. This is just so fun. It's just, leaving Purdue for a house and going back to Purdue. It's almost like the perfect book ending to how the last five years have gone. But Nathan's gonna go off and then Andrew and Stefan will join us and we'll continue to have this conversation. We wanted Nathan to do the heavy lifting with the Purdue stuff just because he's in there and he knows it.

And so I don't think we could have provided the context that obviously Nathan just provided. So we're gonna have a little bit of a different conversation, but of course give our game picks and a few other things as well. So we'll get into that when we come back from the break here.

Stephen Means (00:02.725)

Anyway, we won't be talking about that, so.

And we're back in on Buckeye Talk. Shout out to Nathan for coming back on to the pod. I thought that was a good 30 minutes of Purdue Talk. And that's all the Purdue Talk we're going to do today. I'm just going to be honest with you. We're going to have an old fashioned Buckeye Talk where it's a game preview pod where we don't preview the game. At least not in the same port of like winning and losing. And here's why we're not going to do that. Purdue, offensively 20.3 points per game. It's 15th in the Big 10. Yards per play, 5.99. That's seventh in the Big 10. Passing it.

yards per attempt 7.10 that's eighth in the big 10 rushing yards per attempt at 5.01 that's fourth in the big 10 and those numbers as Nathan told you are better because they've actually been a competent offense the last couple of weeks they were actually worse when the season started defensively they allow 36.9 points per game Stefan house they score 38 points per game

They scored 38, they essentially allow what Ohio State already gives up. So that alone should tell you how this game is gonna go. That's 18th the Big Ten. 6.74 yards per play, that's 18th in the Big Ten. 9.3 passing yards per attempt, is defensively, that's 18th in the Big Ten. Just for comparison, Andrew, I went back to 2016, that's as far back as CFP stats goes back when it comes to some of these defensive stats. Here are all the teams.

As of when this game is going to be played on November 9th, 2024 in the Big Ten, who have allowed eight yards or more passing yards per attempt since 2016. In 2018, Illinois 8.5. In 2019, Rutgers 8.1 and Maryland 8.0. In 2020, this is the most. Illinois 8.8 in a COVID year.

Stephen Means (02:03.827)

Rushing yards per attempt 5.07. That's 17th in the big 10. So they're not last there Rutgers is last at 5.10

Stefan Krajisnik (02:36.455)

I think we get let's hear for the pretty Russian defense a little bit better

Stephen Means (02:40.915)

You know, hold it together, you know.

Andrew (02:43.522)

You know what? You know what the crazy part about this is? I was thinking about this. Didn't Illinois have Devin Witherspoon and Maryland had Deontay Banks during this? And it just didn't matter.

Stephen Means (02:59.047)

You have first round draft pick screaming help me. That's what you had. Listen, it's why when we were doing the valuable pot on Thursday, even if Denzel Burke had been playing at a level for now, we're looking at him like, I don't know, could he be CB one over Travis Hunter or Will Johnson? Even if he was playing at that level, he couldn't be top three in value.

Andrew (03:01.774)

That's exactly right. I was like, wait a minute. They they definitely had like NFL players in the secondary

Stephen Means (03:24.615)

that exact reason you just brought up Andrew because Devin Witherspoon was a top five draft pick. And it's like, you have to like almost not look at the rest of the defense and just look at him and go, he's really, really good. He just plays for this. So yeah.

Andrew (03:32.206)

Andrew (03:37.422)

how bad you have to be for him to be in your secondary. Like Marvin Harrison Jr. talked about, like we asked him like all the time last year, who's the best corner that you play? And he was like, Deontay Banks was something different at Maryland. And apparently it just didn't matter.

Stephen Means (03:44.411)

Yachty Bags was the best. Yeah.

And he was, was, was. Deontay Banks was the first short so it's all true. It's I don't, corners are like running backs. When it comes to statistical stuff, it's sometimes they can be very, very, they can't be the best thing about your defense. They can be a part of one of the best reasons, but they can't be the best reason.

Stefan Krajisnik (03:58.196)

What?

Stefan Krajisnik (04:10.921)

Wasn't Ryan Walters a defensive coach on that Illinois draft?

Stephen Means (04:14.227)

So listen, listen, listen, listen, listen. The listeners heard all, 30 minutes and we talked 30 minutes about what's been going on here about why, because yes, I even said it during that segment. I said numbers don't lie, but they also don't always tell the whole truth. Ryan Walters has been thoroughly involved in the offense over the last couple of weeks, which has taken away from some it. Plus they've had some injuries and stuff. Their transfer portal class did not work out all these different things.

I'm telling Stefan and Andrew this because they weren't all with Nathan and I. The textures in the list are already known. Yes, it's a combination of transfer portal class not working out, firing your offensive coordinator, some of the players you thought were going to be good, weren't necessarily. It's a long story. It's more complicated and it has to be right. You haven't won an FBS game in a year, so it has to be more complicated than this. We're not good enough. That's all the Purdue talk I want to do. That's not what we're going to do. That's why we brought Nathan on.

go in depth about Purdue because he does a really good job at covering his team. He did a great job of covering Ohio State too. We instead are going to be continuing our path down positivity because we had two weeks of negativity. So we're gonna continue down our path of positivity, looking forward, optimism, everything is fine. Even if it might not be, we actually don't know if everything is fine or not, right? They're not gonna, it is for the next two weeks. They're not gonna play anybody at relevancy.

So what we're gonna do is this, we are going to choose one player on offense, one player on defense, just that we want to see. Someone who's not a normal part of things, right? At this point in the season, it's very clear that they're not going to have a meaningful role this year, whether it's because they're blocked by someone or they're a true freshman who's developing in the background, just all these, it's a lot of different moving parts of that, right? So it's not negative that they're not playing, it's just not their turn. It could be their turn in six months.

Right? This guy, there's a guy out there who's probably a second stringer right now, not really kind of out of sight out of mind. And then come April, Andrew, we're leaving the spring game going that guys are starting insert position. And so that's the whole point of this. We're at that point in the year where you got some guys who are on the edge of maybe they're going to red shirt, maybe they're going to not. And so they got maybe two or three games left. And I would assume Ohio State would use this Purdue game and the Northwestern game last week to kind of do that. Obviously red shirts don't apply to the playoff. Once you get on the postseason, anybody

Stephen Means (06:39.581)

play whatever, but the regular season games you only get four. We went really slow the last time we did something like this. We're like, pick an offensive guy, pick a defensive guy. So we're gonna condense a little bit. We're just gonna all go with both of our guys as you get picked. Instead of doing offense first and then defense first. Stephon, as the newbie here, and as the young guy who's developing in the background, you get to pick yours first. Who's your offensive guy and who's your defensive guy?

Stefan Krajisnik (07:09.362)

Did Nathan tell you to call me that?

Stephen Means (07:11.955)

No, but listen, we've I mean, obviously we've gotten younger here. We're planning out lot of young guys right now and getting a lot of experience.

Stefan Krajisnik (07:23.327)

Yeah, I'll say on offense. want to see Ian Moore, you know, he, got his black stripe removed earlier. I think it was after the season already started. He got his black stripe removed, but he's a guy who, you know, as we continue to look at the tackle depth and I guess lack thereof, you know, I to, I want to see where he's at. You know, we, talked about it a little bit, earlier this week on our YouTube video. Like you got a chance to see Zin Mahalski get some reps and some of those non-conference games when, you know, Josh Simmons came out and we were able to see, you know, a little bit of.

of the tackle that there wasn't much, but it was a little bit. And now we're getting into the big 10 part of the season where I want to see that depth again, because the guys who are behind Donovan Jackson and Josh Fryer did not get, you know, a lot of those non-conference reps. So Ian Moore is the guy on offense who I think you're going to have a chance to play him. You know, I said earlier this week, this is probably a game where the offensive line starters might stay in longer than maybe some of the other starters, because you want that unit to mesh a little bit.

But I think as you get into the fourth quarter, think the lead is going to be big enough where it's probably important to get Ian Morrison reps. So you know what you got there, you know, in case something else does happen. So that's the guy on offense that I'm keeping an eye on on defense. You know, feel like I'm almost cheating because we got a chance to see him, you know, get valuable reps, but Jalen McLean looked really good when Lathan Ransom was out against Nebraska. He made a big play to break up a pass and you know, he's a guy who could show some promise, you know, moving forward as a potential starter on this defense next year. So I want to see him get

You know, some more playing time in the second half, maybe even sprinkle them in the first half. If Latham's not feeling 100 % still, you know, what's the point of, of risking it if, if, know, Ohio State's got a 14, nothing, a 21, nothing lead, you know, early in the first half, why not give McLean some first half reps as well, you know, playing along alongside Caleb Downs. So on defense, Jalen McLean on offense, Ian Morris, who I'm keeping an eye out, hoping that they get some important reps in this one.

Stephen Means (09:12.723)

So through those of you who may be yelling at Stefan and go, how could you not put Devin Brown, Julian Sand, or Aaron Nolan or Lincoln Kinnos? We're not gonna do quarterbacks. We all wanna see the quarterbacks. It's just, there's not really a conversation there right now. We want to see the quarterbacks because one of those guys is going to be the starter against Texas in a year. So I don't know if having someone use a pick on that is a good use of time when it's very obvious.

We want to see the quarterbacks and when they're out there, we want to see them run the offense and not just be handoff merchants. Let's start with Ian Moore, the number 168 player and the number five interior lineman in the 2024 recruiting class at a new Palestine, Indiana. I know Andrew, you've gone to see him play at new Palestine. We I've seen him camp a couple of times. He's played five snaps so far this year. He is now Ohio State second dream string right tackle, at least on a, if we wrote out a depth chart, what they would actually do in a game.

They probably would go George Fitzpatrick first and then they would go in more second. But in the sake of a depth chart, if Donovan Jackson and Josh Fryer get abducted by aliens on Saturday, he's going to be playing right tackle. And to the point of just, mean, we're kind of here now you've lost two tackles and you lost two tackles in two straight games. So you do want to see Andrew what the backup tackles at least look like, even if Ian Moore only plays four or five snaps, just

The more reps he gets, the better because there's a good chance he's in a battle to be a starting offensive tackle next year unless Ohio State finds a gym in the portal.

Andrew (10:50.048)

Yeah, the thing with him is, when you talk about Ian Moore, it's as a freshman, you're not really expected to do very much. And you have to be really special typically to be a first or even a second year player sometimes at offensive lineman, right? You either have to be stepping into a situation where it's just ghastly, right? And your offensive line is in a bad place.

and all of a sudden now you're playing a second year guy. Typically offensive lineman does take a little bit to develop or maybe you're just developed, right? Like we talked about David Sanders in this way. That is a unique position where not only is he probably physically ready to just play tackle as a freshman, but he's also stepping into a position that there's not a lot of depth that. So with more, the question to me is, is he ready or can you see flashes now? Because again,

that first year is really, really hard to make an impact as an offensive lineman. I think you really see a big jump when they go into that second year. We had that entire conversation with Carson Hinsman, right? We were doing, not only did we do it, we're doing it right now where Carson Hinsman had to play, Ryan Day said this a year early and they did not think Carson Hinsman was going to have to be the center in 2023. And well, Luke Whippler leaves and now you have to go to Carson Hinsman and

up and down year, I think for Hinsman, there was some good, there was some bad, you know, there were moments where you just saw him play and you were like that, you know what, we can work with that. There were moments you saw him play, you're like, you know what, he needs to improve at that really quickly. And now he played really well against Penn State and it's his third year. So you got to think like, okay, is there, is there enough there to where you see, okay, this is a second year player at Ohio State on the off.

Stephen Means (12:39.473)

Especially at this point, because you're in the back half of a guy who early enrolled. You gotta start showing. And that doesn't mean he's got to look like a dude who's going to be an All-American next year. But you just got to start showing signs that the last 11 months you've been putting in some work over there in that situation. And Stefan, you mentioned Jalen McClain, number 373 in that class, number 36 safety. I think he's going to end up drastically outplaying that ranking. So far this season, he's played 62 snaps in six games. So he's definitely not going to redshirt. Right. 78.4.

a PFF grade. He's got eight tackles, a tackle for loss and a pretty big pass breakup, I think, in that Nebraska game. I mean, we're talking about Ian Moore, like he might be in a starting battle. Jalen McClain might just be like their starting safety next year alongside Caleb Bounds.

Stefan Krajisnik (13:27.175)

Yeah, he looked pretty good in that Nebraska game. And we talked so much going into that week of, I mean, Ryan Day pretty much said it. He's like, I don't, he was pretty confident in the depth that corner. He called the depth that safety, he referred to it as just options at safety, like literally bodies that they could just put out there. And I think Jalen McLean kind of gave them some more confidence. Ryan Day said after the Nebraska game that he felt like they had us, you know, he felt a little bit better about the safety depth after that. And I think his play was, was a big reason why obviously Jordan Hancock played a part in that as well. But

McLean looked good. Like you said, outperforming, you know, his ranking and definitely gives you some promise that you've got, you know, an option there. And you've got a guy who was able to get some valuable snaps in the regular season in big, big 10 play this year. And you would hope that would translate to spring ball, fall camp and whatnot moving forward. Note on Ian Moore, Andrew, you maybe know more about this than I do. Just kind of look at through his recruiting ranking, kind of surprised Purdue didn't offer him for an Indiana guy that got, you know, a bunch of decent offers.

Stephen Means (14:26.547)

Yeah, he, I actually would probably know it just because I was here from the very beginning of that. Purdue didn't offer him, not because Purdue didn't offer him and didn't do it, just, that's just, he was like a dude for a while. I know he ended in the like mid 150s or whatnot, but at one point he was in the discussion to be the 2024 class's number one tackle. And I think some sites actually had him rated as such. So it's not so much Purdue didn't do its part. It's that Ohio State, Michigan, it's some SEC.

All the big dogs were involved very, very early with Ian Moore. And then obviously, you know how offensive line development high school is, like guys come in go in those situations. So Purdue didn't do anything wrong.

Andrew (15:04.674)

Yeah. He, so yeah, he, if you, if you go back to late 2022, early 2023, he was a top 60 player in the two four seven sports composite ranking. So, you know, I, like you said, I don't know if Purdue, I don't know if Purdue did anything wrong there. it was an interesting recruitment to kind of come in on the backend with, you know, from what I understand, like Notre Dame didn't really push that hard for him. Michigan didn't offer him, like it was an interesting recruitment because like the schools that are, you know, really talented.

Stephen Means (15:12.104)

Yes.

Andrew (15:34.422)

offensive line programs around the area really didn't put I know Notre Dame offered him but they didn't push for him. Michigan didn't offer him at all. I you know, just an interesting look at kind of this recruitment because I think this is a is a really good look and say, did Justin Moore get or just more? Did Justin Fry get this one right? And I think early on, there's enough promise there to where you feel optimistic about it because you know, some of the other evaluations from other programs were just you know,

They were not there for him and there was not as much interest for Ian Moore.

Stefan Krajisnik (16:07.079)

It's an interesting offer sheet to just look through because you do like like Stephen said, there are some big names like the Ohio States and the Tennessee's like they're on there. But then it's like Central Michigan, like Boston College like offered is it's a it's a very like random offer sheet.

Andrew (16:10.85)

Yeah, it's really weird.

Stephen Means (16:21.331)

Yeah, yeah, there's no middle class of college football teams in it. Anyway, Andrew, you're up next. Who are your guys?

Andrew (16:34.264)

So I'm going to go in a similar lane to what Stefan said offensively, and I'm going to take George Fitzpatrick. I'm going to take a guy who's just a year older or maybe two years older. Fitzpatrick is a third year player at Ohio State right now, but I'm really interested to see kind of what he looks like because I think if there's another injury at tackle or something like that the rest of the year, think Fitzpatrick is the guy that's stepping in at tackle. So this is a this year thing too, right?

You know, I think when we look at Ian Moore, saying, you know what, is that the option that they're going to go with if something happens? You know, maybe something else happens and maybe it's a Tegra situation attack. Like if just, really goes off the, you know, if it really goes off the, you know, off the deep end for offensive tackle, you know, then, and then I think you, you probably just start moving stuff around, but I do think Fitzpatrick is their first tackle that is coming off the bench. So this is a third year guy.

who very well might be a starter next year. Like when you talk about what Ohio State's offensive line can look like, Josh Fryer is gonna be gone. And Josh Simmons, I know he got hurt, but he got hurt in the sixth game of the year. And you wonder like, is there enough film already for Josh Simmons?

to go pro like is the NFL draft evaluation for him going to be. know what we saw enough we're good you you played well in the first half or whatever it was against Oregon we feel good about you going pro we feel good about how you played against Iowa maybe that's where you're at. And you might have to open tackle spots going into next season and Fitzpatrick is one of those guys that I think. We're gonna have a lot of commentary about him.

after this season ends because unless you're bringing in like two transfer tackles, which is of course possible, there's gonna be some competition and Fitzpatrick is the elder statesman in that room. So I wanna see what George Fitzpatrick looks like because this might be a tackle that plays this season. This also might be a tackle that is one of your starting tackles for the Texas game next year. So very, very curious to see what he looks like and kind of.

Andrew (18:55.832)

how he plays it if they're able to get him some reps. Defensively, Aaron Scott. And the reason I'm interested in him is because this corner class and this cornerback room is so deep that Denzel Burke is going to be gone. But I don't know if at this point anybody's expecting Davis and Iqbanosun to go pro. I don't think at this point anybody's going to look at Davis and Iqbanosun and see first round pick.

That was one of my, I think market downs that Davison's going to be a first round pick. I don't think that that's going to be possible right now. Now, of course he could ball out the rest of the year and then you never know. it is a, you know, the NFL teams do like traits and Davison has incredible traits. So maybe that's possible, but if Davison comes back, you got Davison Ibn Osin, you've got Jermaine Matthews, you've got Calvin Simpson, hunt Aaron Scott's in that mix. And he's a five star corner. And then.

Here comes Devin Sanchez, the five star freshman. So like is is Sanchez one of your outside corners next year? If he is, there's one spot available. And I'm just I'm really curious as to how much of a battle Aaron Scott can make this, because we're to talk about Jermaine Matthews being a really good football player. And we're going to talk about Davis and Iqbanosun, you know, being, you know, a fourth year player. We're going to talk about all of these guys because they're really good football players and they're really talented. Aaron Scott also has that pedigree, right?

Like Aaron Scott is also like that really rangy, lengthy corner that when you look at him play, you're like, wow, that guy's really long. I think he's six one lit like almost 200 pounds. Like we saw him in spring practice, Steven. And I think my first thing was one of my takeaways, actually, I think I said on the pod was man, Aaron Scott's going to be a dude. He's just really little right now. It was just very obvious that he was a rising freshman in college.

who should have been finishing up his senior year of high school. So how Aaron Scott plays, I'm gonna keep an eye on. I think that that's a really, really interesting situation to monitor for next year's cornerback.

Stephen Means (21:08.179)

Yeah, I don't know. George Fitzpatrick feels like another Zin Moholski situation to me. I don't know. It's just, you're gonna be in year four and he'll have played, as of right now he's played 69 career snaps in his career, which is not nice, 69. In year 20 he played six snaps, in 2020 he played nine snaps, in 2020 it was nice. He's played 54 this year. I just, I don't know. I get where you're coming from. gotta...

Andrew (21:14.018)

Perhaps, yeah.

Stephen Means (21:36.197)

Ian Moore feels like he's a future starter here. I don't know if George Fitzpatrick, the way his career is going, he's going to be a starter. And again, if he is, I'll eat my words. But of the two, I just I think Ian Moore has some upside there that maybe George doesn't have the Aaron Scott window stuff. I'm all in on. Yeah. Right. I think regardless of what happens, Ohio State is probably going to probably get back to rotate its corners a little bit more with.

Aaron Scott and Jermaine Matthews and Devin Sanchez coming in and Calvin Simpson hunt. But yeah, I want to see it. He's like he's just like Ian Moore. It's like you've been here since January and Andrew, we saw it in the spring. Unlike Jeremiah Smith, Aaron didn't come out the gate looking like a dude who was a five star recruit. In fact, he looked like a freshman, right? He kind of got that.

Andrew (22:21.816)

Didn't Jeremiah Smith, didn't he lose his back stripe on like the third day? It's like, yeah, it's like, that's the thing. It's like he, yeah, like Aaron Scott looked like a normal five star freshman.

Stephen Means (22:26.515)

Something like that. like that. Yeah, Aaron Scott got baptized a little bit and got a little humbled in the spring. The way five stars can get humbled. And I think he came in the fall camp and started to figure it out and figure it out. The good thing is he didn't have to figure it out on Saturdays. He could figure it out Sunday through Friday. And I think he has spent this entire year figuring it out, figuring it out Sunday through Friday. And I think it's going to pay off.

next season when he is in a position where I don't think it's going to be shocking at all if we look out there and he's a starting cornerback, especially if Davis and Iguanosan leaves alongside Denzel Burke and Jordan Hancock. I am all in on let me see as much of number five on defense as possible on Saturday.

Stefan Krajisnik (23:20.105)

I think there's a lot of benefits to that as well, just because of what you have coming in next year with Devin Sanchez, right? Like you want to know what you got from Aaron Scott. At least get a glimpse of it because it's going to be a hell of a competition when spring and fall roll around. Corner is going to be, assuming Davidson and Denzel leave, Corner is going to be one of those positions that are going to be really interesting to watch going into next year.

Andrew (23:43.512)

Well, we, you know, six one four three five three three one five get the latest on recruiting at Buckeye Talk for our text messages. But Nahim Offord, Ohio State's trying to hang on to him and he's another five star corner in this class. And, you know, maybe we see them start to look at other corners as the weeks go by. If you're not really sure how the Offord thing plays out, but like you only have two committed right now in your class.

Depth is going to be a big issue if Denzel goes because you're going to need a fourth corner. know, and maybe Aaron Scott is that guy because we saw this this year. They've been really lucky knock on wood with with injuries and things like that. But I mean, last year when they played Penn State, they had to go to Jermaine Matthews. They had to go to a true freshman for that game. And you're going to be in a tough spot at some point if you don't have depth built up and.

Having Aaron Scott as a third or fourth corner is a really, really, really, really significant benefit to a secondary. So, you you're not bringing in four guys in this class and Aaron Scott might be kind of in that mix to, you know, to, be a reliable depth piece. And then you may be going into his third year. You see a breakout.

Stephen Means (24:56.381)

And they're not red shirt in this guy. He's played five games already. 47 snaps, 69.8 BFF grade. I don't think he has any tangible stats right now, but he, he almost had a pick. I think it gets Western Michigan. No, he has his one tackle. He almost had a pick though against Western Michigan. He's got a tackle. He's got a pass breakup and, former letterman row recruiting guy, Matt Parker, we were, he was like joking with him about it after the game about, man, you missed an opportunity to pick that there's upside. Lot of side I'm all in.

I'm all in on Aaron Scott. I can't believe I got these two. I can't believe I got them. Because you guys are so, well, what's going on in the trenches with the offensive line? I can't believe I got these two. What's going on in the trenches? What's going on in the secondary? Ooh, nah, man. You want to know how much I didn't think I was going to get this guy? When you brought up the Ian Moore and Purdue thing,

I was going to pick Mylon Graham and being that's another guy Purdue missed out on because Mylon Graham lives like 30 minutes away from Purdue. Five star wide receiver who's just kind of been in the back again, developing like a normal five star recruit because again, Jeremiah Smith is not a normal five star recruit. And that's a guy where I think Mylon Graham could very easily be wide receiver for next year behind Jeremiah Cardinal Tate, Brandon Ennis. And then it's going to be like him and Bryson Rogers duking it out to be number four.

That dude looks like Garrett Wilson and it's not just because they were the same number and it's not just because people who've listened to this pod for the past five years know my love for Garrett Wilson as a football player. No, like legitimately physically he looks like Garrett Wilson, what looked as a true freshman. But I'm not gonna pick him because I got this guy instead because you two were so about the trenches and there's nothing wrong with being about the trenches.

It's just James peoples was right there man. He's right there. That dude's gonna be the starting running back next year We're talking about all these guys who might be starters, you know They have a chance to make a push this for this dude. You're starting running back and he's gonna show you why on Saturday He's just starting running back. He's got 35 carries 153 yards and two touchdowns He's got a negative negative two yards receiving because they went backwards in the past, but whatever man, whatever what ever what ever

Stephen Means (27:22.045)

This dude is awesome and I've been saying it since fall camp and this year for him has always been about he can either, hey, I'm not playing because I'm not ready. no, Ohio State is going to have to hit the portal this off season to find a running back or it's I'm not playing because two of the five best running backs in the country I share a room with. So there's just no place for me this year. So instead,

I'm going to learn from them. And in a year from now, I'm going to do what they were doing. In fact, I think I'll go out on the ledge. I think he has more upside as a running back than Trevion Henderson and Quentin Judkins do. Just because physically he's, think a little ahead of where Trevion was when Trevion first got here.

His vision, I think, is better than both of them. So now it's just can he learn the intricacies that they have obviously learned. That's not saying they're not too talented backs. I'm just saying I am really, really high on James Peeples. 69 snaps this season. There is zero reason why Trevion Henderson and Gwynn John Judkins need to get more than like eight or nine carries in this game just to keep them in rhythm. The next two weeks, they should get like eight or nine carries and then say, hey, we'll see you against Indiana. So long. Have a seat at the end of the bench.

Hey James, hey Sam Williams Dixon, let's have fun today. James peoples baby, James peoples. And then defensively, I can't believe Ryan Day just talked about this guy the way he talked about them. And again, I got him. Edric Houston as a three tech, five star edge rusher. You wanna know when the last time Ohio State got a five star defensive lineman out of the South was? You wanna know who it was,

Stefan Krajisnik (29:11.242)

Hit me.

Stephen Means (29:12.167)

Do know who it is? Andrew, do you know who it is? You know?

Andrew (29:18.252)

Out of the set now.

Stephen Means (29:18.983)

Were the options were Ohio State or Bama?

Stephen Means (29:25.063)

Let me give you a hint, he was a Heisman Trophy finalist.

Stefan Krajisnik (29:28.949)

There's the last one.

Stephen Means (29:31.069)

Jae-jung, that's the last time. That's the last time. Well, no, yeah, actually, yeah, it is because Teron Vincent went to, what's the school down there in Florida? IMG, but he's from up North. So that's, I'd never count the IMG kids as Southern kids ever, unless they're actually from the South. Why? Why?

Stefan Krajisnik (29:43.006)

I am Julie.

Andrew (29:46.86)

Well, you lost me with the South. You lost me with the South. He's from Maryland. He went to Demetha. That's not the South.

Stephen Means (29:56.477)

So that kid, that kid, I'm sorry. No, no, Chase Young. I'm not, he is a SEC football player.

Andrew (30:06.05)

Okay, there's a difference between SEC football player from the south because that was what I was thinking. I was like, where do they get a kid out of like, hammer Georgia?

Stephen Means (30:08.531)

His options were, that's why, okay fine, that's why I played her. he's, well he's like, he's more south than he is north. He's east, but he's more south than he is north.

Andrew (30:18.518)

He's like, it's like very, very like similar to Ohio in terms of.

Stephen Means (30:23.963)

No, it's not at all. You literally have to drive south to get to D.C. What do you talk to get to Maryland? What are you talking about? And you drive south to go home.

Andrew (30:29.078)

I'm from the area! It's not- it's barely south! Yeah, just a little bit!

Stephen Means (30:35.239)

You go south to go home, don't you? All right. So it's not as south, it's more south in Ohio.

Andrew (30:40.566)

When you said South, I was thinking like North Carolina or Georgia or Alabama or Florida.

Stefan Krajisnik (30:41.023)

The White House is part of SEC country now.

Stephen Means (30:44.145)

Well, you know what the white out is, doesn't. All right. The point of matters. The last time Ohio State beat Alabama for a dude who realistically could have ended up at Alabama was a five star defensive lineman. His name was Jason. I'm not saying education is going to be Jason. What I am saying is there seems to be in legitimate effort being put forth by the higher ups to get education on the field. The back half of the season, that doesn't just sound like.

hey, let's check in on the five star and let's see how he's doing. It sounds like Ryan Day wants Edric Houston to play more. He's played 31 snaps this year in six games. He's got one pressure so far this season. And he's got his.

Stefan Krajisnik (31:23.401)

What do you think about the change?

Stephen Means (31:27.485)

I'm not shocked by it. He's, I'm not shocked by it. is.

Stefan Krajisnik (31:33.833)

He's looked good. I'm I'm not saying it's the wrong move. just, I'm curious your thoughts on it happening.

Stephen Means (31:34.993)

He's a really good.

Not he just his physical makeup seemed like a guy that Ohio State does that sometimes they'll take guys who are defensive lineman who could play either start him out at end so they can learn some of the pass rush moves and then they move him inside and then they become very very very very dangerous Draymond Jones is who's I think of who's I think of when I think about edge of Houston and what the upside is here and Draymond as much as people in 2018 and 2017 when talk about Nick Bosa and Taishan and how good they were Nick Bosa I've seen before he got hurt

Draymond Jones was awesome in 2018. Like awesome, awesome, awesome. they both would bring it up. Like this dude's he's. my, he's he's he's special. And I think that's what they're trying to do with education. It's been a while since they've had an interior guy who is a game wrecker in the past game. Right. I think Tyler Williams and Ty Hamilton are awesome run stoppers. I think Tyler Williams.

Especially last year, Andrew, when he was getting past breakups, that stuff was great. But I think it's been a while since they've had a legitimate fear monger in there. And I think they might have one. Ryan Day said, we got one now. That's his words. He said that on Tuesday. And I'm in. I'm in on Edge of Houston now that they've moved him in the inside. I think it was always a possibility. And I think that when he was getting recruited, it was part of the conversation between Bama and here.

of like playing on the edge. Obviously like Barry Johnson's retirement, but I trying to figure out whether Edrick wanted to do that or not. I would love to talk with Edrick about this. We haven't talked to him yet this year, but I am in on him being on the interior and being a guy who can just disrupt the middle of your pocket the way Mike Hall would have been if they actually played him more.

Stefan Krajisnik (33:18.421)

Yeah, I just want the narrative to show that I picked the safety and Andrew picked a corner on defense and Steven's so obsessed with the trenches that he went with a defensive tack.

Stephen Means (33:29.511)

And I think James Peoples. think, I think.

Stefan Krajisnik (33:32.425)

Now we're even, we're even.

Andrew (33:33.046)

Because, because Steven wants to run the dang ball.

Stephen Means (33:35.847)

No, I picked the two guys that I genuinely didn't think I was going to get a chance to pick me. You wanna know who my original two picks were going to be? Because I thought those two would be off the board. Mylin Graham and Aaron Scott. Those are going to be my picks. And then I'm like, wait, James Peoples and Edric Houston, two guys that we know are going to be either starters or playing starter level reps in nine months against Texas and they're still on the board and I went last?

Stefan Krajisnik (33:46.965)

I had.

Stefan Krajisnik (34:00.821)

I had James people first on my list, but I was going through it I was like, I mean, I've already seen these gonna be pretty dang good. So I'll go with someone. He has more weight than seen yet.

Andrew (34:06.318)

That's what I'm saying, Stefan. Yeah, I was like, I've already seen some of this. I want to see something I haven't seen yet.

Stephen Means (34:06.503)

What? I love the phone. I'm getting wet. you guys get, so you guys get bored with greatness. That's what you're saying. Get bored with radio.

Stefan Krajisnik (34:16.137)

cost of doing this.

Andrew (34:18.978)

Also let's call it James Peeples greatness already, but.

Stefan Krajisnik (34:19.246)

I will say I don't get bored of watching Jeremiah's parents, so that's impossible.

Stephen Means (34:23.091)

No, no, no, no, no, it's okay. You don't want to see me. No, it's okay. No, no, you don't want to see any more Jeremiah Smith. You've seen enough. No, it's okay. So I want you here. No, it's fine. For the first 15 minutes of the game, just close your eyes. Don't even watch. You don't know. Don't even want to make those scores. Let's take a break here. That was fun. I did enjoy that. I think we picked some good options. Lots of freshmen and enjoys with Patrick James peoples and education for myself.

Stefan Krajisnik (34:28.744)

Here we go, Mr. Narratives.

Stefan Krajisnik (34:37.058)

I could probably tell you what the score will be.

Stephen Means (34:51.183)

Ian Moore and Jaylen McLean from Stefan, Andrew Pick, George Fitzpatrick and Aaron Scott. Five guys with a lot of upside and a guy who I think is coming into kind of a now or never situation as he heads into the next spring. Ohio State Purdue will take a break right here and then we'll come back and we'll give our breaks where I think I'm going to make us all do it with our eyes closed and just like imagine what the score might be.

Stephen Means (00:07.965)

I'll say it's a no 38. Yeah, I was gonna say 53 and a half

Ohio State is a 38 and a half point favorite in its next game against Purdue on Saturday at noon on the Big Ten Network. I'm Stephen Means, that's the phone. Christ Nick. That's Andrew Gillis. And these are our game picks. Stefan, where are you going with this one?

Stefan Krajisnik (00:29.756)

Yeah. When I saw the line first come out, I was sitting there thinking, okay, come on, that's a lot of points. And then I wrote down my prediction 42 to three. And I was like, I guess that's a cover. I'll take Ohio state to cover. I'll take the under because I just, this Purdue offense, will say Ryan Day, I don't think he was lying when he was saying that this offense has, you know, shown some strides as the season has progressed. But I think this defense, I think they know that Oregon shut out Purdue and they're going to try to show up and.

Stephen Means (00:36.285)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (00:58.81)

make sure to put up some impressive numbers as well. So 42 to three is my final. just, Ohio state's offense, I think is going to be too much for Purdue to handle. And I think the running game, Ryan Day on his radio show came out as straight up said that they're going to try to establish a run early against Purdue, which I guess isn't too surprising. You know, Ohio state's done that a ton, but he was just pretty open about like, yeah, we're going to, we're going to run the ball early. And I think we're going to see the time, start to tick and we'll see a de facto running clock in the second half. So.

I think Ohio State is going to pull away early and probably, you know, ease up, maybe not intentionally ease up, but think the clock is just going to be ticking a ton in the second half. 42 to three is my final. It shouldn't be much of an issue at Ohio Stadium on Saturday for Ohio State.

Stephen Means (01:42.301)

So that's a cover and an under, which is 53 and a half as a time we were recording this. I don't know if they can ease up. Honestly, just think Purdue's that bad off. Listen, if you're watching this on YouTube, go check out this full podcast. We have a special guest, special guest, a former friend. Well, longtime friend of the pod, longtime friend of the pod. Come on, and he was explaining a lot about why things have gotten so bad for Purdue.

Defensively and a lot of it has to do with their offense and their inability to just like hold on to the ball so that idea of maybe time of possession being in produce favor just a Quick, you know speed up the game a little bit or slow down the game a little bit might not even be on the table Plus yeah, you can establish a run But if trading Henderson sees a crease and now he's off for a 70 yard touchdown You still establish the run, but it's not like you control the game. It's just you just ran for 70 yards

If Quinchon Judkins stiff arms somebody into the ground and then says goodbye, 45 yard touchdown. I mean, I don't know what to do with that. I just see a lot of similarities in between some games that they had early on in the season where it's like, hey, how come the defense is on the field so often? Because the offense is scoring in one play, 75 yards in nine seconds. And I think that's on the table here. You guys wanna hear a fun fact though?

Stefan Krajisnik (02:58.748)

I Andrew does.

Andrew (02:59.575)

Let's hear it.

Stephen Means (02:59.869)

Yeah, fun facts, baby. It's been two years since Ohio State scored 50 points against a Big Ten opponent. And that used to just be what they did. Their season highs by year. And this is how I came up with my score. 73 against Maryland in 2019 in the 73 to 14 game in 2020, 52 to 17 against Nebraska to open that season. Then 52 to 12 against Michigan State later on in that year. That was their season high against the Big Ten opponent. 2021 at home against Maryland.

in those games. So I tried to take into account new clock rules, right? So it's a little harder to run up the score sometimes. So I essentially just took a touchdown away from both teams and came up with 50 to three, barely, barely missing on the over under, but Ohio State coverage pretty easily. And that takes into account a couple of things. I just think Ohio State's gonna be explosive by tripping and falling into explosive plays. Purdue is just a very bad team. And that takes into account that

Maybe the second teamers get an explosive plan. get a chance to score two. And I just don't know how Purdue slows down Ohio State. And I definitely don't know how Ohio State doesn't slow down Purdue. I just think that's just going to be what it is. Plus this is a team who has been in, Nathan said this, Nathan Baird used to be at Cleveland.com . He said, Ohio State's been in three straight, really tight games where it's been pretty stressful. And that's a bad place for a team who has no chance to beat a.

that they're very much overmatched against to be in because now what you have is an angry football team who's trying to let its hair down loose a little bit and just kind of run away with the game. And that's how this plays out. That was a long way of saying 50 to three Ohio State wins and covers but doesn't get the over under Andrew. What's your game score?

Andrew (05:09.582)

I'm going to go really bold. Purdue is going to score a touchdown. Ohio state 49, Purdue 10. think Ohio state is, the equivalent I would think of would be like, if you've ever played baseball and you swing with like a donut on the bat, you swing with a weight on the bat, and then you go up to the plate, take the thing off and all of sudden the bat just feels a lot lighter. I think that's probably what Ohio state's feeling right now. I mean, cause you mentioned

know, the couple straight games. Well, I think it even goes back a little bit to the Iowa game. That game was seven nothing at halftime. And you know, that was a game into the third quarter. And then Ohio State ran away with it in the second half. Then the Oregon game was obviously a game that went down to the last second, literally. Then the Nebraska game they were losing in the fourth quarter and something that nobody expected. The Penn State game came down to the last couple of plays and Penn State had a chance to get the ball back at the end and Ohio State ran out the clock. So

This to me feels like the game where Ohio State can jump on them a little bit early, you know, make this 21 nothing by the end of the first quarter into the second quarter, something like that. But I do think when you look at the schedule, this is the week that you're going to want to see a little bit of rotation defensively, right? know, Jermaine, Jermaine Matthews, Calvin Simpson, hunt. I think those guys are going to rotate in a lot at corner. I think you're seeing a lot of defensive line rotations. Probably going to see a lot of CJ Hicks at linebacker like

Look at the schedule. You have this week against Purdue and next week against Northwestern. And then, then you are done. There are no easy weeks left because you got Indiana, Michigan. And then after that, it's big 10 championship game and playoff. So this is it. This is the week. And I think where you're to want to rotate some guys, I think Ohio state's going to be trying a lot of different stuff. think Purdue is going to maybe take advantage of that a little bit, but I do think Ohio state's going to jump on them early. And then we're just going to kind of see.

You know, a lot of rotations and a lot of kind of mixing and matching for the Buckeyes here as you try to get guys reps because you're kind of running out of time as crazy as it sounds where you're kind of almost guaranteed a blowout game like this. So I think Ohio State's going to pretty much wipe the floor with Purdue. think we're all predicting that obviously. So Ohio State 49 Purdue 10 much needed breather for the coaching staff and for the team, probably for the fan base too, to be completely honest with you. Last couple of weeks have been

Andrew (07:31.86)

somewhat stressful for these people. And I think that this is the week where you kind of can just, like you said, Stephen, let your hair down and just play free and kind of relax a little bit.

Stefan Krajisnik (07:40.366)

If you think the last few weeks have been stressful, Ryan Day referring to the Jelani Thurman juggling catch literally said it took a week off of his life. So that answers that.

Stephen Means (07:50.653)

He said he was about to throw up on the field. And then he says, you gotta move on. You can't stay sick for very long. You can't. You gotta throw up and you gotta keep it pushing. You gotta keep pushing. And it could be even more stressful. You could have not been in an FBS team since last year. It'd be one in seven. You could be that. It could be that. Always gotta put things in perspective. So that's three covers, two unders, one over by a man who thinks Purdue is somehow going to score twice on Ohio State. Those are our game picks.

Go listen to the full pod wherever you find Buckeye Talk, wherever you find podcasts, go listen to the full pod. If you're watching this on YouTube, if you're not watching this on YouTube, you should be listening to the full pod and then go watch the YouTube video just so you can see our beautiful smiling faces and get the text 614-350-3315 two week free trial 399 after that Ohio State Purdue on Saturday, Big Ten Network at noon for a chance to go eight and one for Stefan Christening of Rancho Gales. I'm Stephen Means and that was.

Fuck I talk. And for Nathan Baird.