Is it too early to look toward the trade deadline for the Cavs? Hey, Chris! — Wine and Gold Talk podcast

CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast , Ethan Sands and Chris Fedor speculate with subtext subscribers on potential trade moves that could be made ahead of the trade deadline by the Cavs , emphasizing the importance of team chemistry and fit.

More Cavs coverage

Cavs vs. Warriors; preview, injury report, odds, TV

How many teams have started an NBA season 9-0 like the Cavs? And which ones won a championship?

Cavs' historic start: How Kenny Atkinson, Darius Garland, and bench depth are fueling success – Wine and Gold Talk podcast

Takeaways:

Kenny Atkinson has made subtle yet impactful changes to the Cavs' offense, and they are benefiting from Atkinson's experience with the Warriors.

Guarding Stephen Curry requires a versatile defensive strategy. Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell have shown improvement in their defensive capabilities, but they face a difficult task against Golden State.

The Cavs lead the NBA in offensive rating, entering Friday's games.

Team chemistry is crucial for the Cavs' success this season.

Max Strus' return could significantly enhance the Cavs' offense.

Trade discussions should focus on minor adjustments rather than major overhauls.

Continuity and camaraderie are key components of the Cavs' winning formula.

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Ethan Sands

What up, Cavs Nation? I'm your host, Ethan Sands, and I'm back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. We're coming to you ahead of the Golden State Warriors game on Friday, and the Cavs have already made history. It's the first time that Kenny Atkinson is going to get the face off against his former team after becoming the first coach in NBA history to reach nine straight wins with a new team. Chris, I know it was hectic in New Orleans. I know you just got back. But talking to Kenny Atkinson, what he's been able to learn from Steve Kerr, but also what he's been able to see when it comes to Stephen Curry's game and how he's implemented that in some of the schemes that he's had for the Cavs. What have you thought about when it comes to their first meeting and how that's gonna go? Because I know it's kind of hard going up against your old coach.

Chris (01:21.048)

It sure is, and you can tell that there's a lot of influence from the Golden State Warriors and from Steve Kerr in this Cavs offense. know, Kenny Atkinson wanted to point out before the game last night against New Orleans that he hasn't changed things drastically on the offense event, despite, you know, what a lot of people have been talking about. It's been subtle changes to some of the things that they were trying to do as a team.

And I think that was the right approach for Kenny to take. This was a team that made the playoffs and back-to-back years. It didn't need a huge overhaul. So obviously he changed up the rotations. It's more Donovan, Evan Mobley together, more Darius, Jarrett together. He's stuck with a specific rotation. The guys who come off the bench for the second unit usually check into the game around the same time every night.

barring something unforeseen that happens before that. you know, they're obviously pushing the pace and the spacing is different and the principles are different and where guys are being placed on the floor, that's a little bit different too. So it's not as clunky. But he said it's not drastic, the changes that they've implemented on the offensive end of the floor. And I think that's part of the reason why.

It's been more seamless for this team, but you do see elements of Golden State. Continuous movement, split cuts. Now, JB Biggerstaff ran split cuts last year too. They just weren't as effective. And they just didn't have the same backing from Kenny's days in Golden State of how to best use those, when to best use those, like all those different things that he learned while he was with the Warriors.

You can certainly see some influence of what Kenny learned from his time next to Steve Kerr in Golden State. And the Cavs are definitely benefiting from it. And I think philosophically, what do the Warriors like to do? What do the Cavs like to do? There are a lot of similarities there, and I think it's going to make it really, really fun. And Golden State's playing extremely good basketball, and they just got Steph back too.

Chris (03:40.856)

We'll have to see on the status of Draymond Green, he's questionable for the game, but it should be a really, really fun game for the Cavs.

Ethan Sands (03:49.643)

And it's not the first time that Kenny Atkinson has faced off against Steve Kerr and Stephen Curry since he got the job with the Cavs. It's just the first time he's facing off with them with the Cavs, right? Cause we look back to the summer where Team USA, who was obviously led by Stephen Curry in that gold medal game against the French national team with Kenny Atkinson on that sideline as a coach was a little preview.

as to how difficult it is to game plan, guard, whatever you want to call it when it comes to what they try to do against Stephen Curry on a nightly basis. And Chris, that's the main thing that we're going to have to look for in tomorrow's game. Who's guarding Steph? What are they sending at him? Are they sending blitzes? Is Isaac Acora going to start if even if Dean Wade is going to be who is questionable?

for tomorrow's game with an illness, is he gonna start so you have a better perimeter's defender who's gonna be able to chase around somebody like Stephen Curry? Or are the Cavs just gonna continue to switch when it comes to the guards and figure out what they do on that end? Because we know how lethal he can be if they play into a drop coverage even by a step.

So Chris, I'm trying to figure out and pick your brain what you think the strategy is, if there is one, to guarding Steph Curry, especially with a coach that played alongside him for three years.

Chris (05:24.206)

I think the number one strategy even is change up the looks as much as possible. Don't send the same guys at him. Don't get him in a comfortable situation where he knows what's coming. He knows what the Cavs are trying to do defensively. So as many different guys that the Cavs can throw at Steph, the better it's going to be. Honestly, I think it might be Darius. I think the matchup for Dean Wade is just way too much. Dean doesn't have that foot speed.

don't think you want Dean chasing Steph around a hundred screens, a half. The constant movement that Steph brings to the Golden State offense and the way that he finds success on the offensive end of the floor, it's not like Dame Lillard. It's not like some of these other guys that the Cavs have played that they feel comfortable putting Dean on or even Isaac Okoro. I think there are going to be opportunities throughout the course of the game where

You know, Isaac's going to try and body Steph and get physical with him and be really, really grabby. A method of defense that a lot of different teams have used in the past against Golden State and Steph to try and take them out of rhythm to try and make him as uncomfortable as possible. But you need somebody with the kind of foot speed to chase him around all those screens. And it might have to be Darius. I think Karis is going to get a go to. If Karis is in the starting lineup.

He's probably not gonna be in the starting lineup. Let me check that. If Karis is going to come off the bench in the same rotation that he has early in the first quarter, you know, he might get an opportunity to see if he can chase around Steph because Karis is really, really quick. Karis is long. Karis is physical. Karis is athletic. So I do think it's going to be a bunch of different people that see Steph throughout the course of the night, but it's all about trying to find

the players that have the right skill set to do that. It's probably better from a Cavs perspective to have Dean Wade on Andrew Wiggins, Dean Wade on Jonathan Kaminga, guys that he better matches up with. This kind of point guard, this kind of player, to me it's more for the guards. And that means that Darius has to take that responsibility. He has to take that challenge. And that means that Donovan Mitchell at times is going to have to take that responsibility and take that challenge.

Chris (07:51.04)

And both Darius and Donovan have been really good defensively this year for the Cavs. It's not a situation where you're looking out there on the floor and you're saying, both those guys are defensive liabilities, get them off the floor because they're not holding up on the defensive end. They've been good defensively. Darius has been more physical at the point of attack. Darius has been more of a pest. Darius has been getting in the passing lanes.

Donovan is one of the league leaders in deflections. So I do think having those two guys and the skill set that they do have, I think that gives the Cavs more of a fighting chance against somebody like Steph, who's going to be constantly moving.

Ethan Sands (08:33.209)

That's I also think that even if Dean Wade is healthy and obviously he's going to come off an illness that had him out for the last couple of games that he didn't even that his teammates didn't even want him to travel like Chris has mentioned, right? And I think for me, it's like if Isaac Okoro were to be in the starting lineup, like he has been in the last couple of days, that wouldn't also mean that Dean gets a little bit more rest than he's used to in a situation where matchup base you would obviously would want.

Chris (08:45.59)

I'm

Ethan Sands (09:01.929)

Isaac out there just in case you have to switch with Darius and Donovan. Also, we talked about over the course of last season how good Isaac was coming off of screens, getting around screens and being able to maneuver that way. I think he's a guy definitely to look for, especially when you talk about how important he is at the point of attack for defense. But I do agree with you. Darius and Donovan.

have taken to heart the comments that were made against them about being too small and not being able to defend at the point of attack. And it's been a different look. It's been a different game. And obviously, we talk about Isaac in the starting lineup. I believe having Dean Wade in the starting lineup to start the season has helped them out a lot, not only against bigger offensive presences when it comes to players bringing the ball up and things of that nature, but also

The fact that with those three in the back, with Dean Wade, Evan Mobley, and Jared Allen, there's a comfortability of even if my guy gets by me, like I believe and I have confidence in one of those three to help me out, either step up, deter, or even just block the shot.

Chris (09:59.327)

No, no.

Ethan Sands (10:09.193)

And that allows them to also have the confidence to be more aggressive at the point of attack and get into the passing lanes like you mentioned because Darius and Donovan have just been hounding those using their IQ to get that far. I mean, we also, we've been talking a lot about defense and you mentioned it a little bit earlier on into the podcast, like Kenny Atkinson changing small things to become bigger things, right? The Cavs in the first nine games of the NBA season, obviously still small sample size.

Chris (10:33.038)

We're leaving.

Ethan Sands (10:39.167)

Chris but we're starting to get up there they are number one in offensive rating they have an offensive rating of 122.1 coming off of these games and the other thing that I wanted to mention when it comes to the Golden State Warriors is they beat the Boston Celtics just on Wednesday

which not only helped out the Cavs a little bit when it comes to standing wise, but also just understanding how tough it is to play against a team like the Boston Celtics, albeit without Jalen Brown for the last couple of games due to an injury. But what that means in Steph coming back from an injury and how that's already been able to impact their scheme and how they've been able to continue, I believe it's a five game winning streak currently.

Chris (11:24.716)

Yeah, I mean, the Cavs are going to have their hands full and I'm very, very interested to see how they match up against this particular opponent. Again, like I said, you know, so much about Golden State. This is a long road trip that they're in the middle of. I think it's the fourth game on a five city stop for the Warriors coming off a very emotional game, an emotional win against the Celtics.

They're having a voluntary shoot around on Friday morning. So that kind of tells you how they're managing this road trip and the early portion of this schedule. But you know, if Golden State brings it, if they bring their entire roster and Draymond Green suits up and Steph Curry's engaged, it's going to be a fun matchup from the Cavs standpoint and it's going to be another good measuring stick.

for this particular team because Golden State has been really good defensively. Golden State's been really good offensively. We know how explosive they can be offensively. And I'm curious to see, you know, I think if we're being honest about it, I think you can make a legitimate argument. I don't even know if there's a close second because like New York's very different right now and Orlando was missing Paulo. This is probably the best defense that the Cavs have faced.

So we'll get to see their offense and the changes and the way that they've played and the rhythm that they've been in. We'll get to see them play against the most formidable opponent from a defensive standpoint and see how this offense looks, see how this offense functions when there's not as much space, when there's a little bit more physicality on the perimeter.

when there's more pressure on the shots that they're taking, when the closeouts are a little bit crisper and tighter and things along those lines. So I'm really, really interested specifically to see how this Cavs offense looks against the best defensive opponent that I think they've played to this point.

Ethan Sands (13:37.719)

I mean that wouldn't be an accurate statement because the Warriors are second in defensive rating in the NBA through their first Eight games of the season. I would see their seven and one so that's pretty good right there, right and they have 103.8 as a team which is like Suffocating what was something we talked about with the Cavs last year and I know Kenny

Chris (13:56.269)

Yeah.

Chris (14:00.782)

But I think those numbers are a little bit deceiving and that's why I kind of hesitated to some degree. But I think they have the components on the defensive end to bother teams enough where it may not be wholly a mirage. Like part of the reason why Golden State is number two in defensive rating is because they've played against Portland, they've played against New Orleans twice, they got Utah earlier, they got the Washington Wizards.

You know, but holding Boston to 112 the way that they did, you know, that's impressive. And Draymond Green has talked about it. He thinks he should be in the defensive player of the year conversation. know, Andrew Wiggins loves playing against the Cavs because of what they did to him, trading him the way that they did. He can defend. He's long. He's athletic. He can be bothersome for some of the smaller guards that the Cavs have.

So I do think the components are there that make it so that maybe Golden State's not the second best defense in the NBA. Maybe that number is not entirely accurate. But I do think Golden State can be like a top 10 defense. And that's a really, really good challenge for this Cavs offense.

Ethan Sands (15:19.161)

talk about where the Cavs are, but also where they're going and what could be on the horizon, right? And first, I got a shout out, my first baseman from my softball league the other day, his name is Dave, he's from South Euclid. And I remember the first time I was playing in this league. And as I've said on this podcast a lot.

I talk trash and I'm not a quiet guy to any circumstance, to any means. So I'm talking trash and he yells from the outfield at this point and goes, because he's on the other team and he goes, do you have a podcast? And I was like, yeah, that's probably me. So that's great.

Chris (16:29.334)

Hahaha!

Ethan Sands (16:36.249)

Appreciate Dave, always loved, I mean, it's happened a couple of times this season, but I love hearing and seeing our listeners. But Dave talks a little bit about what the Cavs might need to get over the hump to beat a team like Boston four tries and set for in four games in seven tries when it comes to the playoffs. He says,

I think in order to truly have a chance to actually beat a team like Boston or the best from the west, we need an upgrade at the small forward position. It does not have to be a star type player, but a guy that has prototypical size and has the ability to stretch the floor and create a little bit as well as play decent defense. I love Dean Wade, but he seems to miss a lot of time through injury and illness. He also tends to lack confidence at times. A guy like Cam Johnson would look really good in my opinion.

Chris (17:26.862)

I'm

Ethan Sands (17:27.865)

Somebody that we talked about at length during the offseason. think that's why Chris is struggling but This kind of goes into our next subtext question. So I want to combine the two DJ from Colorado Springs He goes I don't think Boston made any moves last year before the trade deadline I could be wrong. What percentage do you put on the Cavs making a move this year Chris? We're about to be 10 games into the season

I'm interested to what you think and how the Cavs could operate when it comes to the trade deadline as they're potentially entering their 10th straight win of the year.

Chris (18:09.186)

Okay, so the question that I would have, I would turn it around and say, what do you think they need? Where do you think they need to upgrade?

Ethan Sands (18:22.125)

They said small forward, the wing positions.

Chris (18:24.696)

Alright, so there's just not a belief in Max Druse at this point. Is that what we're getting at?

Ethan Sands (18:31.895)

When his when it seems like it which I know we've said this twice already I feel like it is gonna be its own podcast But when he's returning is he returning? Like what level is he gonna return that and I think people might have forgotten Forgotten about max through just because he hasn't played a game to start the season But we also know Chris last year. It was a similar injury for Ty Jerome whether that lingers whatever but for to my knowledge max drew says

Chris (18:38.51)

Yeah.

Chris (18:48.696)

Mm-hmm.

Chris (18:55.363)

Yeah.

Ethan Sands (19:00.909)

been taken out of his entire walking boot. He has like a mini cast on his ankle now, which shows signs of progress. I don't know, you probably do, about what he's been able to do on that, if anything. But I definitely think the Max Struff's conversation, even though last year everybody was calling for him to be sent to the bench, is one that we need to have as well.

Chris (19:23.97)

Hmm hmm.

I just think you have to be careful about shaking up a roster at the trade deadline. Because there are so many things that go into it. Is the guy the right fit in your system? Is the guy the right fit in your locker room? How does that mess with the hierarchy of the team? How does that mess with roles within the team? I think significant shakeups and I do think changing your starting small forward if that's

where these subtextures want to go. do think that's a significant change to a roster. It's a nine and O team. It's a team that came into this season and we believed that they were legitimate contenders. Were they on the same tier as Boston? No, but they were lumped in that next group in the Eastern conference, which it's pretty wide open beyond Boston. That was the feeling that we had coming into the year. And that's the feeling that I still have right now. so

I just think like the kinds of changes that our subtexters are suggesting are more for the off season. I think if you want to make a small move around the margins because you you have an injury in the first half of your season and you need to add some more depth at the trade deadline and you need to add somebody that can enhance like your ninth or 10th spot in the rotation, maybe your 11th spot in the rotation. Like here's something.

Given the history of Darius Garland with injuries and given that Ty Jerome only played two games last year and he's got a little bit of a history with injuries and he's wearing like specialized ankle braces and stuff to protect his ankles, like do the Cavs look at the trade deadline and say to themselves, if we're really competing for a championship, do we need to upgrade the third point guard spot over Craig Porter Jr.?

Chris (21:21.646)

You know, that's a move that maybe you look at. If the Cavs are looking into a situation where they start feeling like George Niang is going to tail off in terms of his production, George Niang is not going to be as reliable in a playoff environment because of some of his defensive limitations. I'm not saying that they believe this. I'm not saying that Kenny Atkinson has hinted at this, but

If that's something that they start thinking, then do they go out and try and make a minor move to upgrade that particular spot in their rotation? Those are the kinds of things that I think this front office will kick around. Those are the kinds of things that I think this front office needs to kick around. I think they'll be active in the buyout market. I think when you're a team like the Cavs and you have

So I think the buyout market is something that the Cavs will be able to explore. And I think that they'll be appealing to some potential free agent at that point in time. But I just think a drastic shakeup for any team that has solidified itself, if the Cavs continue on this pace and they're top 10 in offense and top 10 in defense, and they look like a real threat, a real threat in the Eastern Conference.

I just don't think those kinds of teams make drastic shakeups at the trade deadline, especially given the fact that they don't have a ton of draft capital and they don't have a ton of pieces that they would consider quote unquote expendable. You know what I mean? Like the kinds of moves that you're talking about, those can be costly. And I just don't know that the calves have the assets to do those kinds of things.

Chris (23:45.496)

don't believe that they'll have the desire to do those kinds of things at the trade dead.

Ethan Sands (23:51.629)

This is also a team that is highly built on its continuity, its camaraderie, its chemistry that it has built from being together for multiple seasons. Right. And like, obviously my biggest thing or my biggest question to subtext there's and listeners is how mad are you going to be if they don't make a move during, during the trade deadline? Right. Because for me, it's

Chris (23:56.246)

Yeah.

Ethan Sands (24:19.223)

This team has talked about it for the entirety of the season. Chris has reported on it, written on it, talked to the guys about it. Like, this is a team that enjoys playing with one another. And it is because of how long and how good they have gotten to know each other that they know exactly where people are going to be. I remember watching a video on Twitter, I think it was to begin the season.

where Steph Curry like inadvertently tossed a pass to a spot that Klay Thompson usually would have been at, right? Like you get to play with somebody for so long, it becomes habit to expect and know where people are gonna like the ball, want the ball and those kinds of things. And it'll make them play to a different level because there is less of an expectation or less of a thought process and more just fluid movement.

You don't get that by bringing in and plugging in a random player, especially not in your starting lineup This becomes it can become an issue right when it talks to like Where are my minutes now going? Are they gonna get more minutes than the last guy or whatever? It may be whatever the conversation is things change and can change drastically with just one move in this league much rather trying to move a bigger piece, right? That's why Colby Altman talked a lot this

pass off season about how it didn't make sense to move Darius or Jared Allen because they hadn't truly seen it not work. There were statistics that said that it did work. And I feel like they are going to continue to lean on those stats already, especially if you talk about being 10 and 0 or a 9 and 0. And Chris, just a little history, right? Because I'm having an come out tomorrow on these teams.

There are 21 teams in NBA history that have started 9-0. The Cavs are one of them. So this is not only something that is obviously precedent, but it is special. And you don't want to mix it up or mix and match unless you are certain that the move that you make is going to have a substantial impact on winning when it comes to the playoffs.

Ethan Sands (26:37.197)

You're muted.

Chris (26:41.422)

Like so many people are looking at Max Struce and they're saying to themselves, Ethan, there are more talented small forwards out there. And that's true. And you can sit there and you can say, okay, there are more, there are guys out there that are better equipped to deal with Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum because they have a little bit more height. They've got more size. And that's true too, right? But like, who are those guys?

And are they available? And what's the cost for them? And do they fit the kind of style that the Cavs want to play offensively as well as Max Struce does? I don't know about you, Ethan, but I think the Cavs are very excited to see what this all looks like with Max Struce in the starting lineup. His movement creates chaos. His floor spacing, his shooting. They can weaponize Max the same kind of way that they've been able to.

with Sam Merrill coming off the bench, right? So if you think about Sam Merrill and how he fits in this system and the impact that he's made off the bench, now start to envision Max Druse doing those same kinds of things while at the same time getting more minutes, while at the same time playing alongside Darius Garland, Donovan Mitchell. So they just need, if you're talking about the makeup of this starting lineup.

two bald dominant guards, two guys in Evan Mobley and Jared Allen who are really really good in pick and roll stuff, who are really good in two man game type stuff, and then you say like, okay, what do you need surrounding those guys? You need somebody with a skill set like Max Druse. So if he's healthy at the trade deadline and the Cavs believe that he's playing well and he's effective around that time, I don't know how they could look at the situation and say,

Like we need a clear cut upgrade on him and that guy exists in the trade market. You know what I'm saying? Like you can sit here and you can have these conversations about Jimmy Butler. And what does Miami do if Miami continues to blow second half leads and they continue to flounder and they continue to ride the treadmill of mediocrity, right? You can sit here and you can have conversations about Brandon Ingram. If New Orleans doesn't turn it around and you can have conversations.

Chris (29:09.622)

about Jeremy Grant, but from a stylistic standpoint, those guys that I just mentioned, do they fit better alongside this starting group in this offense? I'm not convinced that they do. So they're more talented than Max. They're probably better overall players than Max, but fit is a big component of this thing.

Fit is a big reason why teams win championships. It's not the only reason, of course, there's a bunch of reasons why teams win championships. But you hear all the time about guys that understand their roles, guys that fit the kind of dynamic that the roster allows. They fit the kind of style that the team wants to play at both ends of the floor. So I just think you have to be careful.

when it comes to the Max Druse conversation, because the Cavs need the things that he provides, especially in this starting lineup. And I think they need the things that he provides a little bit more than they need the things that Brandon Ingram does best, or Jeremy Grant does best, or like Zach Levine does best. And I'm just throwing out names, because those are the names that you're gonna hear mentioned the most, especially around the time the trade.

Ethan Sands (30:31.041)

And I don't think, for me, don't think the Cavs are looking right now, right? It's funny for me to say this, the amount of times I bring up things, but I think it's too early to be having this conversation, Chris. And I know it's also a small sample size, obviously, with Dean being out for a couple of games, and then also just how the rotations work based on how much Dean Wade has been out. But I think the Cav, I think the stat is still true.

The Cavs' core for offensive rating and offense over 100 possessions is better without Dean Wade on the floor. So then you think about the matchups of throwing Max Drews into that, right? And for me, Chris, the most exciting thing that I'm looking forward to watching when Max Drews comes back is a spaced out lineup, a five out lineup of either Darius or Donovan running the one.

Sam Merrill at the two, Max Struce at the three, Dean Wade at the four, and Evan Mobley at the five. Like that sounds to me like a dangerous five for an offensive juggernaut. And this is already a team that has seen and made improvements on the offensive end with Kenny Atkinson's system, the little tweaks that he's mentioned he's made. Imagine adding Max Struce to that.

Imagine a high volume shooter that doesn't always need the ball We've seen him as a a screener a cutter and he also has the two-man game with Evan Mobley that has already begun to grow What does that look like in this new offense with? Inverted pick and roll with max in Evan instead and what it looks like for picking pops, right? Like that is those are the things that I'm looking forward to based on

Chris (32:14.264)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (32:24.695)

what Max Struce could do. This is going to end up being its own podcast, but Max Struce's impact, as we mentioned last season, as we talked about Added Abundance, he is one of the most impactful players on the Cavs. You don't get the third best net rated player on a season, in a season that got them to the Eastern Conference semifinals without being that, without doing that, without being reliable in minutes as well.

Chris (32:29.486)

Chris (32:39.991)

Yeah.

Chris (32:52.558)

And here's the other thing, Ethan. I totally get the appeal of Cam Johnson. I've been talking about Cam Johnson for years on this team. Shoot, the Cavs have been talking about Cam Johnson since 2019 when he came into the NBA, when they were hoping that he was going to fall to their range in the 20s. And then all of a sudden he vaulted up the draft and he went in the lottery. The next like Cam Johnson too, he was part of the Kevin Durant trade. So.

They're not just going to be overly willing to move on from Cam Johnson. And okay, let's say that they do decide to have those conversations. There are going to be many suitors for Cam, right? Are the Cavs going to have enough in terms of assets to appeal enough to Brooklyn to win that quote unquote bidding war? And there's one more layer to this whole thing. He makes $23 million a year.

So the Cavs have to find $23 million in salary just to start there, just have any kind of realistic conversation about a deal going through. So who are you talking about? Max Struce? Max Struce and Dean Wade? Like just from a salary perspective? You're going to do that? Like that's really risky. That's really, really risky when you know...

the kind of impact that Dean Wade can have, especially on the defensive end of the floor and the belief that you have in Max Struce. Is Cam Johnson that much of an upgrade to send away potentially, is just hypothetically, two components of your every night rotation, two guys who could theoretically start for you at small forward.

Ethan Sands (34:42.509)

All right, Chris.

Chris (34:42.734)

I don't know that it is, Ethan. I don't know that it is.

Ethan Sands (34:47.031)

Yep, I agree with you. I think we talked about it during last year's trade deadline when we both predicted that they wouldn't do anything, right? 10 games into the season, we already have a similar conversation, but.

Chris (34:56.365)

Yeah.

Chris (34:59.982)

So I think the other thing is just to like wrap this up, Ethan, like if you're looking at the possibility of the Cavs making a move at the deadline, because you're just like not fully confident in Max Drews or Dean Wade, like cool, totally get that. And if you think that a move needs to be made in order for them to, you know, better match up with Boston or climb into that championship tier, the thing that I would suggest is set your sights a little bit lower.

and look for somebody who's got like a salary in the range of 15 million and below. Because if we're talking about these 25 to 30 million dollar players, that means the Cavs sending away like a key member of their rotation. A key piece of why they became 9-0 to start the year or a key piece of why they've created what is one of the best offenses in the NBA. I say one of the best because I know what the numbers say, but

I have my own opinions on that too. you just, once you start talking about those bigger named players, they come with bigger salaries. And the guys that have the bigger salaries on this roster to match, not to get all mathy and all nerdy, but the guys on this roster that have the bigger salaries to match, the Cavs don't want to move and they shouldn't want to move because they're members of the Core Four or they're part of the top six in this rotation basically.

Ethan Sands (36:28.855)

Yup. Conversations that I think we both can agree are way too early to be having, especially when this team is.

Chris (36:35.456)

Never too early. Never too early. Are you kidding me?

Ethan Sands (36:42.237)

For those that aren't watching on on YouTube that sarcasm But I just think this is a conversation where training guys on a team that is undefeated the only undefeated team in the NBA and just reach franchise history by eclipsing nine straight wins like That's that's just it's so funny to me. It's so funny, but

That's what we got to do. We talk to our subtexters, love hearing from them, love all their thoughts, all these things. But with that being said, that'll wrap up today's episode of The Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. But remember to become a Cavs Insider and interact with Chris, me, and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. This is where you can send your questions for next week's Hey Chris episode. 14 day free trial or