Dems lower expectations for Walz ahead of VP debate

Gov. Tim Walz is not known as a gifted debater.

Behind closed doors, the folksy, fun-loving governor , can be overly defensive when confronted about his mistakes, according to fellow Minnesota Democrats. During his first campaign in 2006, he also developed a reputation for speaking so quickly that an ally characterized him as " a bit manic ." A former constituent and supporter recalled that at one of Walz's first fundraisers in Minnesota that year, the vice presidential hopeful rambled for 45 minutes without notes and seemingly without taking a breath.

And ahead of his debate with JD Vance next week — by far Walz's most high profile event of the presidential campaign — some of his allies privately say they worry he won't live up to Vice President Kamala Harris' debate performance against former president Donald Trump. Harris, who drew Trump into traps and delivered biting quips, was widely viewed as the winner of that Sept. 10 debate.

"She did so strong. She's actually made it very difficult for Walz, because I don't see any way that he could match her level of intensity and humor," said a Walz ally who was granted anonymity to speak freely about the governor.

With no further debates scheduled, the Oct. 1 debate may be the most significant national campaign event remaining before November, upping the pressure on both campaigns to deliver a strong closing argument. With Harris and Trump in a virtual dead heat, both sides will use the debate to burnish their accomplishments while going after each other's records.

For Walz, that likely means defending his handling of the 2020 riots in Minneapolis in the wake of George Floyd's murder and his administration's role in awarding $250 million in Covid recovery funds to what turned out to be a fraudulent nonprofit. House Republicans have subpoenaed Walz over the pandemic-era funds.

Harris' campaign is already setting expectations for Walz, noting in public and private that Vance, a Yale Law School graduate who has served two years in the Senate, is an adept debater who can argue the finer points of policy.

Brian Fallon, a top Haris campaign aide, acknowledged that Vance was "a very sharp, skilled debater," in a recent podcast interview with POLITICO . "But he'll have to defend the Trump record," Fallon added.

Walz's team is preparing for an onslaught of attacks from Vance, who has already been blasting the Minnesota governor as a radical leftist and serial "liar" over key pieces of his biography. Walz and his team have downplayed many of the accusations as a resuscitation of debunked attacks that Minnesota Republicans have hurled at Walz since his days representing a rural district in Congress .

But Walz is still largely untested and has never faced the intense, direct questioning that Vance is sure to launch, including about the governor's inaccurate use of his retired military rank — a line of attack some of his allies worry will trip up Walz.

"We've never seen him on the national scale before," said a Minnesota Democratic operative, who was also granted anonymity to speak candidly.

A spokesperson for the Harris-Walz campaign declined to comment on the specifics of this story, but reiterated the debate would provide "another clear opportunity" for Walz to contrast Harris' vision for the country with Trump's.

Walz has been stepping up his debate prep at home in Minnesota and on the campaign trail in the past two weeks, with Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg playing Vance during a session last Tuesday afternoon in Minneapolis . On Thursday, Walz, Buttigieg and the team kicked off a formal debate camp in the tiny northern Michigan town of Harbor Springs along Lake Michigan, according to three people familiar with the matter. Walz and Buttigieg ran through their final, most extensive preps Monday in Harbor Springs, before the governor flew to New York Tuesday morning.

Harris has told Walz that Buttigieg did a good job when he played Mike Pence in her mock debates during the 2020 presidential campaign, according to a person briefed on the conversations. Biden White House alumni Rob Friedlander and Zayn Siddique are heading up Walz's preparations.

There remains some concern among Walz's allies that he can be overly defensive and shut down conversations when he's most stressed and pushed on his missteps in private, even by members of his own party in Minnesota. That's something he can get away with as a governor with majorities in the statehouse. But, they note, he needs to avoid it in the upcoming debate with Vance.

"He can be very: 'That's it I'm done,'" said one Minnesota state lawmaker from Walz's Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party, who was granted anonymity to candidly discuss the matter.

Walz's habit, especially during his congressional days, for being gruff and brash at times was even a topic that Harris' circle discussed during his vetting process for the vice presidential role. Harris' vetting team also called some of Walz's former House colleagues to inquire about his record and temperament.

Another Democratic state lawmaker recalled instances at the Minnesota Capitol where Walz would say 'Alright, I've done all the answering I'm going to do. Meeting's over,'" when pressed on an issue he didn't want to discuss further. More than half a dozen other Democratic state legislators said they remembered similar examples.

At the height of the Minneapolis riots in 2020, Walz held a call with state Democratic lawmakers from so-called "Greater Minnesota," which refers to everywhere in the state beyond the Twin Cities metro where Walz, the statehouse and the most liberal Democratic lawmakers are based.

The governor was already visibly stressed, with protests growing over a police officer's killing of George Floyd, an unarmed Black man. Lawmakers from beyond the DFL's Twin Cities power center were already under intense pressure from constituents who opposed the governor's aggressive pandemic response.

On the call, one Democratic lawmaker in particular repeatedly pressed Walz about his handling of the riots, amid questions over why the governor didn't call out the National Guard sooner. At one point in response, Walz signaled he was done with the conversation.

"I don't think he hung up, but definitely that was it. The call was over," said a third Democratic lawmaker.

"At times, he could be the exact opposite of what he usually is. That was one of them," the lawmaker added.

The governor is often better at savaging Republicans in friendly media hits or during rallies than having to respond to questions in a back and forth manner, the lawmakers noted. Despite calls from some Democrats and media pundits for the Harris campaign to "Let Walz be Walz" after the debate, some of the Democratic lawmakers in his state note the governor's been increasingly protected from public scrutiny during his tenure by his careful staff — reining in his travel around the state after the pandemic and limiting his impromptu exchanges with the press.

Walz told Spectrum News in a recent interview that he's "working hard, continuing to try and learn the issues." He added: "I'm making sure that I have all those facts to back that up."

Walz debating detailed economic policy with Vance is one of the topics Harris officials are most concerned about, according to two campaign officials who were granted anonymity to discuss the matter. Buttigieg recently told The New York Times' Ezra Klein that he's trying to focus on Vance's "faux populism," as he plays the Ohio GOP senator in debate preparations.

Vance, who is also doing some debate prep, said on a recent call with local Teamsters union leaders that Harris' record is one of "unaffordable groceries and unaffordable housing." He added: "We feel a lot more confident and frankly you don't have to prepare if you don't have to hide what you say."

Walz, as he's still trying to find his footing on the campaign trail between being an aggressive attack dog and a more congenial envoy to undecided voters, has conveyed, in the few media interviews he's done , that the biggest job ahead for the campaign is explaining how Harris' economic plans will benefit all Americans.

But he's struggled at times to explain what that specifically means. During a recent closed-door meeting of the Business Roundtable with some of the country's leading CEOs, Walz kept repeating the phrase "opportunity economy" in a way that some attendees felt was overly vague because the ideas behind it may lead to raising the national deficit, according to a person briefed on the remarks who was granted anonymity to discuss the private meeting.

On the campaign trail in recent days, Walz has clearly been fine-tuning some attacks of his own on Vance.

The governor has laced into the GOP presidential ticket over health care while painting Vance as an out of touch "venture capitalist" and criticizing the senator's strong support for ending U.S. aid to Ukraine amid its war with Russia.

And, Walz has increasingly sought to tie Vance and Trump to North Carolina's scandal-plagued Lt. Gov. and gubernatorial candidate Mark Robinson, who reportedly declared that he is a " black NAZI! " in a post on a pornographic website's message boards.

"We've got folks running as Republicans for governor that are proud to refer to themselves as Nazis," Walz told a rally crowd of 3,000 people in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, earlier this month. "Let's not pretend that there's a gradual difference between the folks that are running here."