Reacting to the Cavs tying their best start in franchise history: Wine and Gold Talk podcast

CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, host Ethan Sands discusses the Cavs' impressive start to the NBA season, highlighting individual contributions. This podcast also contains audio from interviews throughout the year.

More Cavs coverage

The 40 Most Influential People in Cleveland Sports: Which rising stars could make 2025's list?

Cavs' historic start a byproduct of selflessness, sacrifice and camaraderie

Darius Garland outduels Damian Lillard to keep Cavs' perfect season alive with 116-114 win over Giannis-less Bucks

Takeaways:

The Cavs have tied a franchise record with an 8-0 start.

Darius Garland is showing potential to be in the Most Improved running this season.

Evan Mobley is evolving into a versatile player with discussions of his comparison to Giannis Antetokounmpo and Chris Bosh.

Jarrett Allen is consistently in the double-double conversation, but he's also becoming a more impactful facilitator.

Sam Merrill is playing with more confidence and freedom.

The Cavs are implementing a new offensive system effectively.

Listen using the player below:

You can also listen using your preferred podcast app. Subscription information is below.

Subscribe and listen on Apple Podcasts or Spotify .

The video version of the podcast is on YouTube as well.

Ethan Sands

What up Cavs Nation? I'm your host, Ethan Sands, and I'm back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. Remember when fans were skeptical about the new system after the Cavs went over in the preseason? I think it's safe to say those worries have gone away. Just a little bit. On Monday, the Cavs tied a franchise record

with the best start to a season since the 1976-77 squad that went 8-0. It's been a minute since we talked, so let's recap the last three games to tell the story of how they've gotten here and how they're one win away from history. Taking it back to Friday's matchup with the Orlando Magic and the Cavs' 120-109 win. Although it was a playoff rematch

from last year's first round series, that nearly caused for major changes in game seven. This game, although it was a playoff rematch from last year's first round series, that nearly caused for major changes after a game seven, this game showed just how much the Cavs have changed since then. Even without Paulo Bencaro, who was out with an oblique injury, will be out.

indefinitely. 4-6 weeks he'll be reevaluated. then Wendell Carter Jr. who's been dealing with an ailing knee injury. The Cavs didn't waste time getting out to a lead. And more importantly to me, and I think to a lot of fans especially from last season, they never gave it back. With nearly 4 minutes left in the game and the Cavs having all 13 players that entered the game make at least one shot. Something that the Cavs relied on throughout.

the start of the season and especially the last couple of nights being their spread offense. But both teams pulled their starters and let the bench get some run, especially for the Cavs who were heading to a back-to-back in Milwaukee the next day. All right, I'm gonna set the scene. I took a 6 a.m. to Milwaukee and I'm glad I made it, right? I'm so glad that I got to go and travel. It was my first travel game, road game of the season and it was a doozy.

Ethan Sands (02:29.28)

Kenny Atkinson labeled the game as the Cavs toughest test that far into the season as Giannis and Dame are two future Hall of Famers. Those two game wreckers did just that. They combined for 75 points when the game was all said and done, but it didn't matter. The Cavs walked away with the W.

This is just my second year on the Cavs beat, but this is also my second travel game that has gone down to the wire. Y'all remember the last time that the Cavs went into somewhere and brought it back to Cleveland with a W? Yeah, the last time was when the Cavs came back from

The last time was when the Cavs came back from 20 plus down against the Mavericks in Dallas without some key players. The story was similar on Saturday.

Ethan Sands (03:28.5)

The story was similar on Saturday, with 6-man Karis Laverte out with knee soreness. But the Cavs, yet again, leaned on their spread offense having 6 players in double figures. Yet, it came down to the final seconds of the game. Obviously, we know how it went. Dane hit one of his Dane Time moments. And before my eyes, I had no time to be in awe as I frantically...

frantically rewrote my game story for seemingly the second time, maybe third or fourth. I don't even know. I had to write so many times this game. But not 10 seconds later, Donovan Mitchell drained the first game winner of his career, or so he says, because he doesn't count anything that was above 10 seconds left on the clock that ended the game as a game winner. I again was tasked with rewriting my story and Donovan finished the game

with 30 points tying Kyrie Irving for the 3rd most 30 point games in Cavs franchise history and he did it in 288 less games. While Donovan won the game, even he wouldn't speak or soak in the moment without giving credit to his teammates. Especially 2 bench players that have impacted the last 2 games significantly. Isaac Okoro with his tenacious defense on Damian Lillard

after coming off the bench and playing big minutes in the 4th quarter, including driving on the floor for a loose ball. Sam Merrill was the other unsung hero in Donovan's book, as Sam led the bench charge offensively with 17 points. But he wouldn't. But I want to go into Sam a little bit more. He has blossomed under Kenny Atkinson. He's not just a shooter anymore. That's what the scouting report

read last season. That's what it read a lot for teams that were kind of getting to know Sam at a different level because he wasn't a big role player before that. He's now a cutter, a screener, and a good defender at that. I wrote a feature on Sam from his college days to the NBA last season and from everything I heard from talking to different coaches, staff, players, like the amount of interviews I did for this story was insane. But he is now

Ethan Sands (05:55.04)

playing like the guy he used to be in college when he was running the show and being a more involved player. He's not doing that to the same level with the Cavs, obviously coming off the bench and having Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland, all these other great players to play alongside. But he looks more comfortable than he has just being a spot up shooter and coming off screens and all those different things.

Now we get to present day, when the Cavs hosted the Bucks in tied history. The first major thing was knowing that Giannis Antetokounmpo was out. The game plan then focused on Damian Lillard, right? Because you have to. Almost entirely. And I know Dean Wade was out with an illness, but I think if Kenny Atkinson would have had the choice without messing up his rotations or anything like that, Isaac Okuro was the better starter.

in that situation to match up with Dane anyways. Kenny Atkinson has kind of teased with, I'm saying that he's not gonna only stick with one small forward starter, all these other things. Chris has mentioned in the past that he didn't think that was true. I agree with him at this point. But with Dean being out, you got to have a different opportunity to throw Isaac and Kuro in. Obviously, the reason I say we have been saying that is one, Dean Wade is a great addition next to

Evan Mobley and Jared Allen because they're able to play and switch three through five. Also, Dean Way can help out on the perimeter as well, switching with Darius and Donovan. It just makes things a lot easier. I know Isaac and Coral can switch one through three, but against teams like the Orlando Magic, right, if they would have Palo Bencaro, it would have been difficult for Isaac and Coral to switch or even guard Palo, right, in that situation as a three man.

I think it's also difficult for him to guard guys like Jason Tatum, Jaylen Brown even, right? Those guys, he loves those competitive matchups, but it's more difficult because he's smaller, he's shorter. Isaac Okoro is six foot five and Dean Wade is six foot nine and a half, potentially six foot 10, right? But I want to give you some numbers on Isaac versus Dane over the two games this year and then last year as well.

Ethan Sands (08:16.66)

Because the dude, like, I feel like he just loves playing against Damian Lillard. One of the, like I said earlier, going to be a Hall of Famer, but this guy, Isaac O'Coro, something's wrong in his head, and he just loves playing against one of the best, all of the best perimeter players, right? In two games this season, 14 minutes in matchups, according to NBA.com . Obviously, these stats can be a little finicky and are not always great, but...

In this case, Damian Lillard has gone for 30 points, I believe it was, in the last two games. In tonight's matchup, he had 36. And in Saturday's game, he had 41. Over the last two games, in 14 minutes of matchup coverage by Isaac Okoro, Damian Lillard is shooting 30 % from the field and 16.7 % from three. He just has

He has only 13 points when Isaac Okoro is the nearest defender to him. Right? He has two assists, four turnovers, right? Huge numbers. That's just in two games. Now, if we take it back to 2023, 2024, Isaac Okoro had 24 minutes roughly of matchup minutes against Damian Lillard over four games. Right? Dame scored 26 points.

over these four games against Isaac Okoro. His field goal percentage? 26.5 and three point percentage? 17.6. Right? He was three of 17 on the perimeter against Isaac Okoro last year. He had five assists and four turnovers and it seems like Isaac had three blocks against Dame as well and three... and... yeah.

And yeah, in three blocks as well. So great stats, great competitive nature, right? But then when we're talking about today's game, you get into all these different plays and the things that went on to make this happen, right? Darius Garland, back to being himself, right? We obviously, everybody understands that Darius Garland was not himself last year.

Ethan Sands (10:45.684)

The reason being because he was not only going through a fracture jaw that had his mouth wired shut for an extended period, he had to drink through a straw. He also went through a family loss, his grandmother. And today we just got to see how much Darius' family and friends mean to him. After a game that Darius had multiple family members in attendance, he went off for 39 points, eight assists,

and was seven of 11 from three point range, right? And Darius got to come to the podium to talk to the media after the game and he was there talking and in the media room, there were like at least five to 10 people watching and recording and just enjoying and soaking up the moment of Darius Garland, right?

He's playing with more juice this season. He's playing with the joy. If you read Chris's from earlier this year, he's got his joy back. He's playing with fun. And one of the things that he's been doing after three points, after three, after his three point shots that he's been making, as he's blowing kisses to the sky, right? That could be to his grandmother. That could be just him celebrating being able to play the game again. I have to ask him that question.

But I feel like that is a celebration that has more meaning to it than just trying to show up the opponent, right? It's not like he's blowing it to the fans or the crowd or other players. It seems like he's doing it for him. But I definitely have to ask him about that the next time we talk. The other thing, Jared Allen, right? Well, first, let me say this about Darius Garland. I think because of the season that Darius Garland had last year and the

and the amount of people and players and coaches and teams that wrote off Darius Garland. I think that he could be in the most improved conversation for the season. And I think he's someone to keep an eye on as we go forward, right? The other thing, the other player that I wanted to talk about from tonight's game, actually there's a list of players that I have written down and I think we should talk about from tonight's game. Jared Allen. He's been the most impactful or consistent Cav.

Ethan Sands (13:04.512)

this season and has been for the last couple of years, right? He had 14 and 15, 14 points, 15 rebounds. And he's a guy that you can simply give the ball to and feel confident in him making the right play. He had six assists on top of that guys. Like Jared Allen is becoming more of a facilitator and the power that he has with the ball in his hands, whether it's DHOs, whether it's being in the painted area and kicking out because he's got three defenders swarming him, right?

This is a guy that is able to impact so many different things on so many different ways of winning because he shows energy. Darius Garland called him the heart and soul, especially on defense, but the heart and soul of this team, right? As he goes, everybody else goes. And Darius Garland talked about this in a way that made you remember the first quarter of the game. Jared Allen.

is fighting for rebounds, fighting for offensive rebounds. Y'all might think it's chaos. They should be getting these tough boards easily, but Jared Allen is putting his body on the line, tipping around, going and fighting two, maybe three guys at a time, trying to get offensive rebounds. One, that's just him having a knack for that and wanting to show off and be a, as he described it, leader by example in his post-game press conference. But Kenny Atkinson also said before the game,

that he felt like they could do better at offensive rebounding. Well, Jared Allen must have taken that to heart as a conversation that they've obviously been having, but he took that to heart and he's been doing that all year long, right? He just had one offensive rebound, but that doesn't account for the balls that he tipped away to Isaac Okoro or Darius Garland or Evan Mobley. He had 14 defensive rebounds. So the effort's coming on both ends, obviously. The effort is coming especially on the defensive end because he's getting out and running.

Right. There's a play in, in last night in today's game that he got a rebound and he took it himself and he powered it home. Right. That, that is something that is special about Jared Allen and the freedom that these guys have, to run the floor with the ball, these bigger guys to run the floor with the ball. That kind of gets me into Evan Mobley. Right. We talked about the evolution of Evan Mobley this season and what we've already seen.

Ethan Sands (15:33.056)

Chris has talked on this podcast a lot about how there could be some tough nights and some wrinkles and some...

Ethan Sands (15:48.554)

growing pains in figuring out not only Evan Mobley's role, but also figuring out like his comfortability, his aggressiveness, all this other stuff. Evan Mobley didn't start the game great. He didn't finish the game great. He shot six of 15, but the most important part about Evan Mobley is he was not deterred because he was missing shots. He was just going at it. Maybe even it got him more acclimated and more active to go and attack people.

like Bobby Porter's Jr. or any like, or yeah, like.

Ethan Sands (16:31.988)

like Bobby Portis, right? Guys that he deems like should not be in the same class as him when it comes to offense versus defense, right? And then you also think about Evan having a, Evan had a sequence of plays that I think will be remembered for a long time and is trending on Twitter and all these different things, right? Evan had a series when he blocked the shot, got the rebound and went coast to coast. Evan had a

left-handed dunk, right? And then he came back on the next possession and shot a three ball and drained it, right? That, as Jared Allen said after the game, is a glimpse of what they want from Evan Mobley, what he is capable of. Kenny Atkinson said that he wants Evan Mobley to bring the ball up even more. He wants him to continue to grow in that aspect, to have confidence in bringing up the floor, because there have been times where Evan Mobley has got the rebound.

and looked around for a guard and then gone and driven. Sometimes that second of hesitation, second and the two of hesitation can change how the offense is working, right? And just the opportunities that are down the field or down the floor, if you're allowing the defense to get back even for that split second. So the change in dynamic, the change in speed of his decision-making to take the ball up the floor, I think is where Kenny Atkinson wants to see him grow. And him going coast to coast tonight,

That's something that they want to see more of because I know I made the comparison before to Chris Bosh, right? I was, if you listen to other podcasts and they've had that conversation, that was me. I was the one bringing up the comparison of Chris Bosh to Evan Mobley because of how the Miami Heat asked Chris Bosh during their championship run alongside LeBron James and Dwayne Wade to take more perimeter shots to bring the ball up the floor.

all these different things. I saw him more as a, it's changing into a stretch big and turning that into a five out lineup, right? But if the Cavs are going to keep Jared Allen on the floor and they're going to keep this duo together, which I think is working to start the season, it is going to be different than Chris Bosh because you still have another big on the floor alongside him. Chris Bosh was the five. They obviously had that five out lineup. Now,

Ethan Sands (18:54.398)

There's a tendency or there's a comparison, a similarity that's also been going around that Doc Rivers brought up today in his preseason press conference, or his pregame press conference, about the comparison between Evan Mobley and Yana Santacumpo because of how quickly they can get up the floor, how their length can allow them to attack players differently off the dribble, one and two, that they can get to the basket with one, two, three steps, maybe even just one dribble.

from the three point or free throw line that allows them to have a different versatility, especially we've seen Evan Mobley recently going up against bigger defenders and how he's been able to hang in the air and still have the touch off the glass to get those attempts to go in. So that's something that we're looking to see. So I'm interested, depending on how Evan Mobley's three point game develops, how he develops as a ball handler, the comparison still between Giannis and

and Evan Mobley and Chris Bosh but as of now I think because I believe Evan Mobley has a better handle than Giannis. Giannis can go vertical. He can go straight at you and obviously he'll be able to back you down and things like that but he's not bringing out dribble moves like Evan Mobley has the capability to do. There was a game earlier this season where

There were two defenders on him on either side and Evan Mobley dribbled between his legs, right? But like wrapped around to get the ball through to him and then finished with the layup. That's different. That's something that we have never seen Giannis Antetokounmpo do. And I don't think we've seen Chris Bosh do it either, right? So these are comparisons, but I believe Evan Mobley is capable of becoming the best version of both of them. And if Evan Mobley continues to get stronger, I think that's something that will...

look more like Giannis if that so happens. again, Mobley is his own player. He's a better defender than Giannis is than he ever will be, I believe. And I think that Evan Mobley is also a potentially better scorer overall than Chris Bosh, maybe more so towards his early years and when he was with the Toronto Raptors. But that's a conversation for a different thing, right? And looking at comparisons.

Ethan Sands (21:20.508)

to the Cavs players, Hot Rod, right? That's a guy that we can name the comparison, what he's been able to do, all those different things. So just looking at different ways to compare these guys past, present, future, and seeing where Evan Mobley will fit in and where he is capable of going. The next player I wanted to talk about was Donovan Mitchell, obviously, right? But Donovan didn't have to have 30 today, right?

in their 1-16, 1-14 win over the Bucks. Donovan Mitchell was able to have 14 points on 5-0-15 and 3-7 from the 3-point range and not feel stressed, right? Sometimes it's another player's night. But throughout the start to this season, it has been about the entire offense, right? In the first half, the Cavs had five players.

in double figures, the core four along with Sarah Merrill. And that's something that hasn't happened in a long, long time. Right.

Ethan Sands (22:39.968)

It's the first time since November 11th, 2023 versus Golden State where they had five players scoring double figures in an opening half. Right? So that's different since that since last year around this time, a month, a month into a month further. but like the cows winning games will become, be become easier with a spread offense. No longer are they just relying on

Donovan Mitchell, right? There were jokes in the media last year even in conversations with JB bigger staff where it's like just give Donovan Mitchell the ball and let him go like he'll be like no that that's not really the play but like sometimes you just have to and That's what happened at the end of the Bucks game when they were in Milwaukee on Saturday But in this game it was Donovan being a leader a humble confident leader in his guy in his guys, right? Kenny Atkinson talked after the game

saying that there is a calm demeanor to what he's got, a calm confidence to what he's got going on, but also the understanding that...

There was no fear. There was no like...

There was no questioning about if they were going to win the game or not. It didn't feel like they were scrambling. It was, okay, we're going to set this up. We're going to find the guy that we want to get to ball to. And in this case, it was Daria Garland. Daria Garland, right? Daria is having 39 points on 15 of 22 shooting and seven of 11 from three point range, right? Like Jared Allen talked after the game about the last three pointer that Daria's hit.

Ethan Sands (24:25.0)

And Donovan basically drew it up. He was like, Jared, go set a screen either for Darius or for me. And Darius is going to hit the shot because I'm going to find him or he's going to hit the shot. Right. Like that is the confidence that you have to instill in your players, but also understanding that as the franchise face, as the franchise pillar, as the guy that is supposed to like that after you got traded here, all the expectations change to a championship.

contention, right? To say, well, it doesn't have to be me. It can be Darius, Evan, Jared, Sam, Sam Mero, all these other things. Like that's the continuity and the consistency that everybody was kind of worried about coming into this season. Like the Cavs didn't make any moves, so they're not going to be able to have the same growth as some of these other teams in the NBA, right? Well,

Let's look at some of where some of where these teams are. Obviously it's not entirely based on their play. Sometimes some, some are based on injuries and things that they have going on in their organizations that sometimes are out of their hands. Right. But obviously we know Boston's in second, seven and one, but behind them in third place is Brooklyn. The Brooklyn Nets are four and four. Then it's the New York Knicks three and three.

The Miami Heat are 3-3, the Chicago Bulls are 3-4. That's the top six, right? Then it's early, right? So like, this doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, but like the comparison and what people were saying about the Cavs, not only because of the 0-4 preseason, but also because they didn't make any big moves as some of these other teams. I just think it's really interesting how

their continuity has been their baseline and their strength because they're comfortable with each other. know where everybody's gonna want the ball and things of that nature. It's just different about what this team is capable of because they have the know of each other, the strength of camaraderie, of chemistry, of joy, right? Like we talked about that a lot last season and how this team plays better with that.

Ethan Sands (26:48.38)

Nothing makes a team happier than winning and this team is eight and up. So, so I want to give you my take, before I continue with the players and their impact so far, like the Cavs to me, I feel like they play, well, they played New Orleans.

Ethan Sands (27:18.558)

And it's also about how they've been able to play under Kenny Atkinson, right? The last person that I want to talk about in their performances that I mentioned a little bit earlier is Sam Mero. Cause I talked about Isaac LeCorel at length and his defense against Damian Lillard and all those things. And if Dean Wade is out against the New Orleans Pelicans, it'll be likely, unless Karras LeVert comes back, that Isaac will still be able to start for them, right? Because that makes the most sense.

But Sam Merrill, right, he's a guy who I talked to one-on-one after the Magic game on Friday. He talked to me about the difference between this team and playing under Kenny Atkinson in his rotations rather than J.U. Biggerstaff, kind of like informally, right? He talked about how in the Magic game,

in the Magic game. Sam Merrill took three shots, right? He still played 20 minutes. He took, I think, two shots. I don't know, I don't know. I don't even know if Sam Merrill took any shots in the first half of Friday's game, right? And he talked about that. He said, I didn't shoot or my goal wasn't to shoot in the first half. And last season he said,

He might have gotten taken out at that point and not come back into the game because there was an emphasis on shooting, making shots and because he was seen as a defensive liability. But now in Kenny Atkinson's system, he's playing more free, more relaxed and letting the game come to him. He's allowing himself, he's not forcing things, right? As in last year, he might've forced threes coming off screens.

and thinking that he has to get it up so he's making shots or making baskets so he can stay in the game, get more opportunities to showcase that he is capable of playing at that level. in Kenny Atkinson system, it's not about and this is what Kenny Atkinson said. It's not about makes and misses. It's about how he's impacting the game as an overall player. Right. And Kenny Atkinson said that he sent a text to Sam about

Ethan Sands (29:50.58)

Kenny Atkinson said that he sent a text to Sam about how he's not playing because of a shooting. Like, because at the beginning of the season, Sam wasn't shooting the ball well, right? He was playing because of his defense. And that's crazy to think about because of how much they had, how much it had came off as, how much it had came off as that Sam Merrill was a liability on defense, was getting attacked on defense.

Sam said he put on some strength, some weight this summer to combat that. And that's something that he's taken to heart and he's done on his own. And I think that's it. And I think that's really important for his growth, but also his confidence on that end of the floor because he takes pride in it. And it's something that he wants to continue to work on and grow and show to NBA offenses that he can't be picked on to the same level that they might think he can. So yeah, I, and.

Ethan Sands (30:56.244)

So overall, I really went through a lot of the different players that have made impacts, but it's the entire team, right? Kenny Atkinson feeling comfortable to throw George Niang in there. Obviously with Dean Wei being out, was more of a possibility, more of a necessity, but he's talked about him a lot this season, being a connector, being a connector, being someone that he can count on to go to and how George is growing on the defensive end, not wanting to be a liability on that end as well.

I George hit some threes in tonight's game as well, right? George had three of six, nine points. He also had four rebounds, a steal and an assist, a steal and two assists. And then the one thing that we all understand that George is...

George struggles mostly on the defensive end, right? We understand that Kenny Atkinson has even said that he has to play better on defense so he's not a liability there and that the teams can't abuse that for the Cavs because they need him on offense. But Dean Wade, but George Nieng had five fouls tonight and that's something that they want to clean up. That's something that they feel like.

Ethan Sands (32:21.994)

But overall, this team is 8-0. They're going to New Orleans on Wednesday to face the New Orleans Pelicans team as without one of its best defenders in Irv Jones, Williamson, we'll have the CEO Zion Williamson plays, all those different things, right? And to me, the Cavs should go in there and get another win. They should make history. The Cavs should go to New Orleans and make history. They should win nine straight games.

and be the best start in Cavs franchise history. That's my expectation, right? The next test for the Cavs will be on Friday night as they come back to Cleveland and host the Golden State Warriors who are bringing back Stephen Curry and are still on a roll.

Ethan Sands (33:20.296)

And even without him, our six in one to start the season, right? He played in a couple of games to start the year, but he came back on Monday against the Washington Wizards. He had 24 points and six assists. Like it's still Stephen Curry, but I believe that this is a game that not only will test their defense, especially, but also trying to figure out, or it will be a good matchup.

Especially if...

Ethan Sands (33:56.874)

But I think the Cavs are better prepared for the matchup with Stephen Curry because of what they dealt with with Damian Lillard, right? And I think the most interesting part about this, about the entire Cavs team so far is that they are implementing a system that kind of

that was placed against them last season, right? Remember when Donovan Mitchell, teams were trying to double him, triple him and blitz him at the point of attack and get the ball out of his hands so that the Cavs offense, which seemed to run solely through Donovan last year, would have to find another solution. That is no longer the case with the Cavs. Now it's...

Can the calves implement that against other teams, right? They did it with.

They did it with the Bucks, right? Even though the other players had a better night on Monday, it was difficult for them to score other than Giannis and Dane on Saturday. So I think it's potentially using that system against the Golden State Warriors. It's obviously gonna be difficult. As I mentioned, they're 6-1. It's a good team. But... And the other thing is Kenny Atkinson...

That'll be his first game against his former head coach in Steve Kerr against Stephen Curry after getting another head coaching job. And it's going to be interesting, right? Because you can know what their schemes are going to be, know how to counteract them after being a coach there for so long. But I think, and winning a championship with them, but.

Ethan Sands (36:26.602)

But I think that's where the next test starts. But I think that's where the next test starts, right? I think they should go into New Orleans and get another W. It'll be a tough game because the NBA is like that. Never say never, but that's the expectation. And.

And then they come home and face the Golden State Warriors and Stephen Curry. I-

Ethan Sands (36:54.538)

but one game at a time, right? Go make history and then see what the next game plan is. Gotta get the one on Wednesday first though.

With that being said, that'll wrap up today's episode of The Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me, and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.com backslash Cavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don't like it, that's fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It's easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris, and Jimmy.

This isn't just our podcast, it's your podcast and the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y'all be safe. We out.