Students from concealed carry district in Wyoming don't want parents armed, one teacher says
CHEYENNE — Teachers at Ten Sleep School are allowed to conceal carry firearms in the classroom, but some school officials and students are worried about letting just anyone walk into the building with a gun, according to school representatives.
Washakie County School District 2 has one K-12 school and is a concealed carry district, said Superintendent Annie Griffin. It takes law enforcement 18 minutes to reach the school, Griffin told lawmakers Thursday afternoon, which is why the district allowed its staff to carry concealed weapons with a permit.
Griffin and social studies teacher Emma Reid, who teaches seventh through 12th grades at Ten Sleep, made a five-hour trip to Wyoming's capital city Thursday to testify before the Legislature's Joint Judiciary Committee at the Capitol.
Griffin told lawmakers her school district's concealed carry policy works well, but she had some reservations about letting any adult walk in with a gun.
"I don't think people fully understand the volatility that can go on in schools," Griffin said.
Parents sometimes come in angry, and she's seen it happen more than once. During a meeting with a frustrated parent of a special education student, the father "was absolutely violently slamming his hand on that table," she recalled.
"They come in angry," Griffin said. "How does this look if we're sitting in a teacher conference and we're concerned that they have a firearm?"
Earlier this year, both chambers of the Wyoming Legislature passed House Bill 125, a bill that banned all gun-free zones across the state, including hospitals and school districts. Gov. Mark Gordon ended up vetoing the bill, criticizing it as an overstep of the Legislature.
However, Gordon promised in his veto message to direct the State Building Commission (SBC) — made up of the state's top five elected officials — to consider uplifting gun-free zones in state-owned buildings operated through the executive branch.
The Wyoming Legislature's Management Council, which consists of legislative leadership, asked the Judiciary Committee to consider this issue as an interim topic. Chairmen of the Judiciary Committee formed a working group to address concealed carry issues prompted by HB 125.
"There was not a robust amount of dialogue on that," said co-Chairman Sen. Bill Landen, R-Casper. "Everybody had a very busy summer. We all know why."
Although the group never met formally, co-Chairman Rep. Art Washut, R-Casper, said members of the group had several side conversations. One of Washut's suggestions was to create "a cleaner piece of legislation," with different sections specific to concealed carry, constitutional (or open) carry and carrying pursuant to a state-issued permit.
"Last year, we tried to shoehorn in some amendments dealing with open carry," Washut said. "It just seemed convoluted to me."
Another suggestion from the group was to create three separate bills. One would address concealed carry in a broad range of venues, with the exception of K-12 schools and college campuses. Another bill would address concealed carry on college campuses, and a third would address concealed carry in K-12 schools.
Landen said another option is to resurrect the original bill that passed both chambers and address the concerns regarding hospitals and schools made by the governor and a Senate committee.
What students have to say
Reid presented HB 125 to her students, where she went over the text of the bill with the class and asked her students for their thoughts on it. The initial reaction from her students after reading through the bill, Reid said, was "Why?"
"They didn't feel that this was a problem that needed to be solved," Reid said.
Students were concerned that concealed carry meant they wouldn't know which adults coming into the building had a gun and which didn't, Reid said. When she pointed out to her students that teachers in the school are allowed to concealed carry, they responded that the matter was different because they trust their teachers, she said.
"There was also some talk about trust of other adults," Reid said. "They mentioned that they would become very frightened of new adult strangers who might come into the building."
Adults and parents from other school districts visit during sporting events, and Reid said students were uncomfortable that people in the stands could be armed. Given the volatility of games, senior students told Reid, unprompted, that they wouldn't feel safe if those parents were armed, she said.
Another concern brought up was the scenario where an adult enters the building with a gun, but is a threat. By the time police arrived, students questioned how officers would know which armed adults were a threat.
There's one student in her class who "is very pro-Second Amendment," Reid said. But he told her this bill went too far.
"Those are some comments from students whose lives this bill would affect, or would have affected," she said. "I just thought it would be prudent as a government teacher to bring those thoughts forward to the committee here today."
Gun-free zones, 'soft targets'
Secretary of State Chuck Gray told lawmakers that gun-free zones are "soft targets," vulnerable to mass shootings.
"I've heard from many of my constituents that the current restrictions on our Second Amendment rights have really opened state facilities, including the Wyoming Capitol, to vulnerability," Gray said.
Gray said he fully supported HB 125 and was frustrated by the governor's veto. He said the state entered a "circularity" approach, where the legislative branch offers a solution countered by the executive branch. Sen. Wendy Schuler, R-Evanston, said educational stakeholders haven't had a seat at the table during the whole process.
"I'm not seeing a big push for them," Schuler said. "It'd be nice to get some data and maybe a survey of the districts, to see if that's something they really want."
Richard Garrett told lawmakers about a study conducted by the Lancet, a general medical journal, that studied the relationship between gun-free zones and active shootings. The study concluded that it's "unlikely that gun-free zones attract active shooters; gun-free zones may be protective against active shootings."
Public comment on Capitol concealed carry
During its April meeting, the SBC directed the State Construction Department (SCD) to draft rules that would allow concealed carry in state-owned facilities operated through the executive branch. The SBC held a special meeting Aug. 12, attended by approximately 20 people in person and 50 online, for public comment on drafted rules that would allow concealed carry in the Capitol Extension, an underground corridor that connects the Capitol and the Herschler Building.
Public comment was mixed on the proposed rules. Those against allowing concealed carry in the Capitol argued it would intimidate some members of the public and keep them from testifying during legislative meetings. Lawmakers hold committee meetings in rooms on either side of the corridor to discuss and work on draft bills. The public, lobbyists and experts often attend these meetings to offer testimony.
"Where there are firearms present, there is the potential that it could impede somebody's First Amendment right to be able to speak on behalf of their values and their beliefs regarding a number of those positions," said Tate Mullen, who testified as a fourth-generation Wyomingite.
However, those who were in favor of the rules argued it was a matter of being able to protect themselves. Cheyenne resident Donald Crerar said people can't always rely on law enforcement to protect them.
"I think that it's crazy when we hear statements from other people, with all due respect, that we should count on our police," Crerar said. "It is not the responsibility of law enforcement to go around and protect you. Your freedom and your safety is yours and yours alone."
This draft was "a pre-rulemaking step and a starting point for conversation to facilitate organized discussion specifically related to the first phase of the proposed rule changes," according to an SCD memo. The SCD is currently taking public comment on the rules through an online form until Oct. 2.
Construction Management Division Administrator Suzanne Norton, who also serves as the SBC secretary, told lawmakers this topic will be addressed during the SBC's next scheduled meeting on Oct. 9.
